Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.theory > #118341

Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED

Show all headers | View raw

On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 10:13 -0500, olcott wrote:
> On 5/10/2025 2:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
> > On 2025-05-09 03:01:40 +0000, olcott said:
> > 
> > > On 5/8/2025 9:23 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
> > > > Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> writes:
> > > > > On 5/8/25 7:53 PM, olcott wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > > > > void DDD()
> > > > > > {
> > > > > >   HHH(DDD);
> > > > > >   return;
> > > > > > }
> > > > > > We don't need to look at any of my code for me
> > > > > > to totally prove my point. For example when
> > > > > > the above DDD is correctly simulated by HHH
> > > > > > this simulated DDD cannot possibly reach its own
> > > > > > "return" instruction.
> > > > > 
> > > > > And thus not correctly simulatd.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sorry, there is no "OS Exemption" to correct simulaiton;.
> > > > 
> > > > Perhaps I've missed something.  I don't see anything in the above that
> > > > implies that HHH does not correctly simulate DDD.  Richard, you've read
> > > > far more of olcott's posts than I have, so perhaps you can clarify.
> > > > 
> > > > If we assume that HHH correctly simulates DDD, then the above code is
> > > > equivalent to:
> > > > 
> > > > void DDD()
> > > > {
> > > > DDD();
> > > > return;
> > > > }
> > > > 
> > > > which is a trivial case of infinite recursion.  As far as I can tell,
> > > > assuming that DDD() is actually called at some point, neither the
> > > > outer execution of DDD nor the nested (simulated) execution of DDD
> > > > can reach the return statement.  Infinite recursion might either
> > > > cause a stack overflow and a probable program crash, or an unending
> > > > loop if the compiler implements tail call optimization.
> > > > 
> > > > I see no contradiction, just an uninteresting case of infinite
> > > > recursion, something that's well understood by anyone with a
> > > > reasonable level of programming experience.  (And it has nothing to
> > > > do with the halting problem as far as I can tell, though of course
> > > > olcott has discussed the halting problem elsewhere.)
> > > > 
> > > > Richard, what am I missing?
> > > > 
> > > *****
> > > Now you are seeing what I was talking about.
> > > Now you are seeing why I needed to cross post
> > > to comp.lang.c
> > 
> > What were you told in comp.lang.c that you were not told in comp.theory?
> > 
> 
> void DDD()
> {
>    HHH(DDD);
>    return;
> }
> 
> People quickly realize that when DDD is correctly
> simulated by HHH that DDD cannot possibly reach
> its "return" statement (final halt state).
> 
> Once you know this then you can see that the
> same thing applies to DD.
> 
> int DD()
> {
>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>    if (Halt_Status)
>      HERE: goto HERE;
>    return Halt_Status;
> }
> 
> Once you know this then you know that the halting
> problem's otherwise "impossible" input is non-halting.
> 
> Once you know this then you know that the halting
> problem proof has been correctly refuted.

Nope.
POOH is (at most) about whether the input D is "impossible" input or not.

Back to comp.theory | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-10 10:15 +0300
  Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 11:10 +0100
    Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 08:30 -0400
  Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 10:13 -0500
    Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 23:39 +0800
    Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 17:47 +0200
    Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 14:24 -0400
    Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-11 12:12 +0300
      Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 11:03 -0500
        Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 12:05 -0400
          Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 15:19 -0700
        Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 16:09 -0400
        Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-12 10:45 +0300
          Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 09:47 -0500
            Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 10:53 -0400
              Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 11:24 -0500
                Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 12:42 -0400
                Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 11:59 -0500
                Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 13:08 -0400
                Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 12:19 -0500
                Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 13:31 -0400
                Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-13 12:13 +0300
                Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:18 -0400
            Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:15 -0400
            Re: Why I need to cross-post to comp.lang.c --- CORRECTLY REFUTED Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-13 12:10 +0300

csiph-web