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Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs

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On Fri, 23 Oct 2015, Osmium wrote:

>
> "78lp" wrote:
>
>> "Greymaus" <mausg@mail.com> wrote in message 
>> news:slrnn2hltd.3tf.mausg@dmaus.org...
>>> On 2015-10-21, Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> wrote:
>>>> David Griffith wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I've been toying with the idea of making a replica of the Enigma
>>>>> encrypter using as much mechanical components as possible.  The most
>>>>> complicated parts appear to making and wiring the rotors.  I suppose the
>>>>> rotors could be turned by a solenoid instead of levers from the keys.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, the rotors.  How feasable is it to make an Enigma rotor from
>>>>> multi-layer PCB?
>>>>> 
>>>> You ought to take a look at the work done by Tatjana van Vark in the
>>>> Netherlands.  She built a crypto machine similar to an Enigma.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.tatjavanvark.nl/tvv1/pht10.html
>>>> 
>>>> She also has done some AMAZING other stuff, has a working Litton inertial
>>>> measuring unit, the complete electronics suite from a Vulcan bomber is in
>>>> her dining room.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Question: Why was the whole Enigma project kept secret so long
>> 
>> Basically because they wanted to continue to read the traffic that
>> others were doing after the war had ended, during the cold war.
>> 
>> If it had been clear what they could read, more secure communication
>> would have been used so they couldn’t read it.
>> 
>>> AFAIK, the reason was that Enigmas were produced after the war by a
>>> Swiss company, and used bysecond level countries for what they thouht was 
>>> secure
>>> communic
>> 
>> Not just the physical machine, the technique used to break
>> is also applicable to what is used to secure communication.
>
> I have probably read as much as anyone on Enigma.  And I *still* don't know 
> just how breakable it is. There are a lot of people spouting off who 
> shouldn't be, and I have difficulty separating what those people said from 
> the trustworthy people.  In my mind, I guess, I think the Enigma is not very 
> breakable at all.  To me, the most interesting question is: "Can the Enigma 
> be broken without cribs"?  My tentative answer is "no", in other words a 
> workable protocol for usage can be established and the Enigma is virtually 
> unbreakable. Today.
>
> BTW, my fantasy protocol includes the rule: There must be at least three 
> misspellings in the clear text given to the crypto guy. 
>
I've read some, and the impression I got was that having the machine, from 
the Poles, didn't in itself solve the problem.  They really did rely on 
blunder, the sequence not changed the way it should have been, and 
information sent in the clear that helped to value the information 
encoded, and a lot of brute strength repetitive attempts.

It's not that different from today, when we read about the "evil hackers" 
and then it turns out not technical skill but social skill or blunder has 
gotten them secret information.

If they knew something might be important, from where it was coming from, 
they would allocate resources to figure it out.  And they were lucky that 
the users of enigma got sloppy, just like people today use easy to 
remember passwords.

   Michael

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Thread

Enigma rotor made of PCBs davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2015-10-17 01:47 +0000
  Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-10-16 22:18 -0500
    Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-19 13:11 +0000
  Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-10-16 21:44 -0600
  Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-21 11:35 -0500
    Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-22 11:38 +0000
      Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-22 16:18 +0100
        Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-22 18:22 +0000
          Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-22 17:32 -0700
        Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-23 14:14 +1100
      Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-22 11:48 -0400
      Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-22 11:08 -0700
      Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-23 14:21 +1100
        Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-23 10:43 +0200
          Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-23 11:06 +0000
            Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 10:00 -0500
              Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-23 16:22 +0100
              Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-23 17:27 +0000
              Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-23 13:40 -0400
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-24 06:54 +0000
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-24 10:57 +0000
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-25 18:47 -0500
            Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-24 12:36 +1100
          Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-24 12:29 +1100
        Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 10:24 -0500
          Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-23 10:32 -0700
            Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 13:51 -0500
            Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-24 10:36 +0000
          Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-23 13:36 -0400
            Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-23 15:13 -0500
              Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2015-10-23 20:25 +0000
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 15:51 -0500
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 15:59 -0500
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 18:51 +0100
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-20 21:33 -0500
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-11-20 23:12 -0600
            Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-23 14:14 -0700
              Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-23 22:10 +0000
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-24 09:10 +0200
              Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 19:19 -0500
              Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-10-23 20:13 -0500
                Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-24 09:13 -0400
            Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-24 10:47 +0000
          Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-23 14:46 -0500
            Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 15:48 -0500
  Re: Enigma rotor made of PCBs barrym95838@yahoo.com - 2015-10-22 23:40 -0700

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