Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back

Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Date	2016-06-30 05:42 -0700
References	<f815fe15-66d5-4310-ab75-f26c6ede6a9b@googlegroups.com> <e31efcab-d569-4865-82d9-28b8d0a94c1c@googlegroups.com> <77505c3c-f80e-47d9-8449-d504c28c9aa1@googlegroups.com> <44f7191e-8c44-43a2-801f-fa9238e32784@googlegroups.com> <87y45mevjm.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
Message-ID	<aba6efe2-9a39-4bc9-bc1d-e54f7ac62ea6@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back
From	"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>

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On Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 8:00:23 AM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
> > Types are a nuisance.
> 
> Many people think quite the opposite.  Types are a huge convenience...

My only issue regarding types is that in C and C++ they must be declared
before use, even if they're declared later on in the same source file,
or in a later include file that's still in scope relative to the compile
instance.

I actually view the forward declaration REQUIREMENT as being the single
worst language feature of C and C++.  I can see where it might be beneficial
to have it at times, but very rarely, and certainly not not all of the time.
And I would say it's so rarely needed that it could be dropped with minimal
loss and effort.

I began programming in C in the early 1990s, and I've never had a single
case in all of my C and C++ programming career since where it would've been
an issue to not have this thing declared after that other thing.  It's
always only been a compiler constraint / requirement.  But I have had over
500 separate instances where it's been a notable hindrance causing me to
have to do extra work to make it compile.

I don't code in such a way as to explicitly reuse the same names for
variables that are in scope, or types in scope, so I see no value in
having the requirement.  And in CAlive it won't be a requirement, and in
the first few versions at least, it won't even be an option.  Things will
be declared anywhere that's in the compiler or linker scope, and they'll
be able to be used if the syntax is correct on their use.

I'd like to invite any of you who might be interested to join the CAlive
Google Group:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/caliveprogramminglanguage

I would welcome feedback on my language proposals.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

Thread

Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 10:36 -0700
  Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-06-29 16:04 -0700
    Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 16:30 -0700
      Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-06-29 19:52 -0700
        Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-06-30 13:00 +0100
          Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 05:42 -0700
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 18:11 +0100
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 10:30 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 19:54 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 12:31 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-01 07:59 +1200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 21:31 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 14:31 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 21:18 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 14:26 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 22:44 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 17:23 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-05 21:38 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-05 21:05 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 13:32 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-05 23:20 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 14:25 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:14 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-06 11:18 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 03:36 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:23 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-06 11:29 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-06 02:49 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 05:18 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-06 13:57 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 06:24 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-06 15:22 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 07:12 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-06 08:08 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-06 09:00 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-07 08:01 +1200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-06 13:30 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-06 17:30 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 00:39 +0100
      Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 22:08 +0200
  Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back gordonb.h5sc5@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2016-06-29 20:52 -0500
    Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 19:00 -0700
      Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-30 16:06 +1200
        Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-06-30 02:48 -0700
          Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-30 23:25 +1200
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-06-30 04:39 -0700
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 21:50 +0200
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 06:49 -0700
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 22:23 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 10:43 -0700
                Vaporware (Was: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke ...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2016-07-04 17:59 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Randy Howard <rhoward.mx@EverybodyUsesIt.com> - 2016-07-06 12:38 -0500
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 11:38 -0700
          Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-06-30 19:51 +0100
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 21:59 +0200
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-01 01:05 -0700
        Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 11:32 +0100
          Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-30 23:23 +1200
            Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 14:28 +0100
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-06-30 08:24 -0700
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 16:56 +0100
              Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-06-30 22:17 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-06-30 22:22 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-07-01 08:25 +0200
                Re: Forward declarations ... the straw that broke the camel's back BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-01 12:09 +0100

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