Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy)

Subject	Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy)
Newsgroups	comp.theory
References	<JsCdncZ8o66CWVT_nZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <tb8c0k$1g0gg$1@dont-email.me> <iuRBK.522488$ntj.518011@fx15.iad> <tb93om$1m432$1@dont-email.me>
From	Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID	<aF%BK.85974$Me2.71430@fx47.iad> (permalink)
Organization	Forte - www.forteinc.com
Date	2022-07-20 18:50 -0400

Show all headers | View raw

On 7/20/22 10:33 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2022-07-20 11:16:26 +0000, Richard Damon said:
> 
>> On 7/20/22 3:48 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2022-07-09 18:08:29 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Sipser_165_167.pdf
>>>>
>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>
>>>> // Sipser's diagonal argument
>>>> int D(ptr x)
>>>> {
>>>>    if (H(x,x) == 0) // reject
>>>>      return 1;
>>>>    else             // accept
>>>>      return 0;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> int main()
>>>> {
>>>>    Output("D(D) = ", D(D));
>>>> }
>>>
>>> Looks like this discussion has ended. The question has been answered:
>>> the above code is correct, although it would be clearer if it would
>>> output the value returned by H, too.
>>>
>>> In addition, the question whether one can infer from this code what
>>> Sipser inferred. A minority of participants were not convinced.
>>>
>>> Mikko
> 
>> Well, the problem is that sometimes Olcott will expalin that H(D,D) 
>> didn't get the wrong answer, even though it disagrees with what D(D) 
>> did becuase H(D,D) doesn't refer to the ACTUAL D(D), since that's not 
>> the input, but only refers to what H sees in its partial simulation of 
>> the input.
> 
>> In that case, D isn't definied right, as H calling H(D,D) isn't asing 
>> thw question it needs to.
> 
> It is well known that the if the domain of the halting problem is
> sufficiently restricted but the restrictions don't apply to the
> deciders then the restricted problem can be solved.
> 
> Mikko
> 

Right. Which is part of the flaw in his argument, as it shows that it 
can't be made to apply to Turing Machines, as those aren't restricted 
that way.

Back to comp.theory | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 13:08 -0500
  Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 14:41 -0400
  Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 14:26 -0500
    Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 13:45 -0600
      Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 14:51 -0500
        Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 14:03 -0600
          Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 15:44 -0500
            Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 15:03 -0600
              Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 16:05 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 15:12 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 16:20 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 15:34 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 16:41 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 15:51 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 17:05 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 16:24 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 16:44 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 16:33 -0500
        Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 16:11 -0400
          Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 14:14 -0600
            Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 16:26 -0400
              Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2022-07-09 22:50 +0100
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-07-10 00:04 +0100
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 18:36 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 17:49 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 19:08 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 19:04 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 20:41 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 21:56 -0400
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 20:04 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 21:21 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 22:50 -0400
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2022-07-09 19:20 -0700
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 21:34 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 20:46 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 22:48 -0500
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-10 07:15 -0400
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 23:00 -0400
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 20:42 -0400
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 18:57 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 21:39 -0400
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 20:15 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 21:23 -0500
              Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 15:59 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 18:37 -0400
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-07-09 16:48 -0600
                Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 19:11 -0400
            Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 15:51 -0500
              Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 17:40 -0400
            Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) [wrong source code corrected] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 15:54 -0500
      Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 14:57 -0500
  Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-07-10 15:26 +0300
    Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-10 08:34 -0500
      Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-10 17:30 -0400
      Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-07-12 16:09 +0300
        Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-12 08:13 -0500
          Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-12 19:03 -0400
        Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-07-13 07:45 -0500
          Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-07-13 16:47 +0300
            Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-13 09:49 -0500
              Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-13 18:47 -0400
          Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-13 18:43 -0400
  Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-07-20 10:48 +0300
    Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-20 07:16 -0400
      Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-07-20 17:33 +0300
        Re: Did I encode Sipser correctly? (it seemed too easy) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-20 18:50 -0400

csiph-web