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Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it.

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Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in 
news:0vh62l5v384knmarthj7p26ui03iteilus@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 05 Jun 2026 13:17:23 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <XnsB46253274EBCD629555@185.151.15.190> wrote:
> 
>>Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in 
>>news:nn852ld6t5bg55as1m5ln18nm4m234msqt@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Fri, 05 Jun 2026 01:47:27 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>>> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <XnsB461D251D1F1D629555@185.151.15.190> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in 
>>>>news:udn32llqvglvb0uvd9sprcc3vf8e6r2fo5@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jun 2026 13:22:34 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>>>>> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <XnsB4605408C4795629555@185.151.15.190> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in 
>>>>>>news:uqnu1lp46ipntnuqgr6i3isgpi94kagbg8@4ax.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 May 2026 18:07:19 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>>>>>>> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>> <XnsB45D845A9EBC0629555@185.151.15.190> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in 
>>>>>>>>news:27io1lpn25tp6d3cu2vqlf2843tl2sotil@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 29 May 2026 02:08:28 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>>>>>>>>> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>>> <XnsB45AD5F92E0A5629555@185.151.15.190> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In these examples there were no state laws to conflict with
>>>>>>>>>>> federal law.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     The above just illustrate that the Confederacy was
>>>>>>>>>>about defending slavery, they didn't care whit about
>>>>>>>>>>"states rights"
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Just exactly how was the North going to end slavery?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    As shown by the portion you snipped,
>>>>>>>>at the time the South seceded the North
>>>>>>>>wasn't TRYING to end slavery. In fact 
>>>>>>>>Lincoln offered to PRESERVE slavery in
>>>>>>>>the states that already had it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If that is true why was the CSA even formed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Confederates wanted to EXPAND slavery,
>>>>>>Lincoln was opposed to that. And they 
>>>>>>seceded without even trying to negotiate
>>>>>>the issue. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Expand it where?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     From the Confederate Constitution:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"The Confederate States may acquire new territory; 
>>>>and Congress shall have power to legislate and 
>>>>provide governments for the inhabitants of all 
>>>>territory belonging to the Confederate States.
>>>>In all such territory the institution of negro 
>>>>slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate 
>>>>States, shall be recognized and protected"
>>>>Art IV, Sec 3, CSA Constitution
>>> 
>>> The North at the time was advocating all new territory be
>>> fee of slaves. 
>>
>>     But had pass no laws regarding that. 
> 
> They were expected so the South took preemptive action.
> 


"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. 
I would not even listen to anyone seriously 
that came and talked about such a thing."
Dwight Eisenhower


>>
>>
>>>  The CSA was simply stating their position on
>>> the matter.  You seem to have a problem in understanding
>>> conditions before and after succession.
>>
>>     The South started the over a demand
>>to expand slavery. Not "states rights",
>>not "Southern way of life", not "defense 
>>of property"
> 
> The Southern States banded together to protect their
> internal laws and to provide for an equal standing in
> gaining new territory.
> 
> The Southern States had been there since before the
> revolution.  They did not "start" at this point.
> 
> They did at one point band together to form the CSA.


    They "banded together" to attack America. 

    Why are you defending that?

> 
> 
>>
>>
>>> 
>>> The Confederate Constitution went into effect AFTER
>>> succession, not before.
>>
>>
>>     Did you notice the CSA denial of 
>>popular sovereignty? New territories 
>>MUST have legal slavery even if the 
>>locals don't want it. So much for 
>>"states rights"
> 
> It was expected the Union would pass laws making slavery
> illegal in new states even if the new states wanted it.


    Was the Pearl Harbor attack justified
because of what Japan "expected" the US to 
do?




>>> 
>>> AI Overview
>>> 
>>> Historical Context and Documents Provisional Constitution:
>>> Before the permanent constitution, delegates from the
>>> seceding states adopted a Provisional Constitution on
>>> February 8, 1861, in Montgomery, Alabama, to serve as a
>>> temporary framework.Superseded: The permanent constitution
>>> went into effect on February 22, 1862.
>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     State objections were not allowed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>The CSA Constitution mandated legal slavery
>>>>>>>>>>>>regardless of local opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> That was the way the CSA system was constructed.  It did not
>>>>>>>>>>> exist when the states left the union.  At that point it was
>>>>>>>>>>> state power vs federal power.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      Exactly. The CSA was about slavery, 
>>>>>>>>>>not state's rights. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You are saying the only thing the CSA was concerned about
>>>>>>>>> was slavery?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>  A sampling of the Declaration of
>>>>>>>>Secession documents:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mississippi: "Our position is thoroughly 
>>>>>>>>identified with the institution of slavery"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The issue ws slavery but it rested upon the law, which the
>>>>>>> states felt should hold state law as paramount.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    The Supremecy Clause is in the Constitution.
>>>>>>Which Southerners loved when it came to forcing
>>>>>>states to return runaway slaves to their owners.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There was nothing in Northern law that said differently.
>>>>> Stolen property was returned to the owner.  Do you have a
>>>>> problem with that?
>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>    Funny how slaves were both property
>>>>AND people ("3/5ths of a person") when 
>>>>it came to congressional representation. 
>>> 
>>> That was a legal fiction used to help ratify the
>>> Constitution.  
>>> 
>>>>And when a slave fled to Canada or Mexico
>>>>how did they suddenly become a person?
>>> 
>>> The laws of the country governed.  US law is not valid in
>>> Canada or Mexico today just as their laws are not valid in
>>> the US.
>>
>>
>>    The South claims property becomes a 
>>person according to locals laws. Just as
>>pro-lifers claim a zygote is a person 
>>and not a person accurding to local laws. 
> 
> No, the South considered a slave as property from the time
> he became subject to state law.
> 
> Personhood was not an issue.  Blacks were persons who were
> slaves and had no legal protection or rights.

   
   People are not property, they are people.


>>>>>>>>Georgia:  "For the last ten years we have 
>>>>>>>>had numerous and serious causes of complaint
>>>>>>>>against our non-slave-holding confederate 
>>>>>>>>States with reference to the subject of 
>>>>>>>>African slavery."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>South Carolina:  "an increasing hostility 
>>>>>>>>on the part of the non-slaveholding States 
>>>>>>>>to the institution of slavery."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Texas:  "maintaining and protecting the 
>>>>>>>>institution known as negro slavery -- the 
>>>>>>>>servitude of the African to the white race."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-
causes-
>>>>>>>>seceding-states
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Lincoln offered to PRESERVE SLAVERY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Buchanan offered to PRESERVE SLAVERY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Who was trying to "end slavery"?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The Republican Party and their platform.  Especially in any
>>>>>>>>>>> new states.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      Show us what the 1860 GOP platform
>>>>>>>>>>says about slavery.  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Look it up yourself.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>     There were no abolition bills
>>>>>>>>>>>>in Congress at the time.  
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Because the new Congress had not been sworn in.  Nor had
>>>>>>>>>>> Lincoln.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Exactly. The Slavery States didn't 
>>>>>>>>>>want to even negotiate the issue.  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> There was nothing to negotiate.  The South would not accept
>>>>>>>>> all new states being slave free and the North would accept
>>>>>>>>> nothing else.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Where did "the Horth" say that at the
>>>>>>>>time of secession?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Secession occurred because the South expected what the North
>>>>>>> eventually did.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     They seceded to expand slavery. Not 
>>>>>>because of any "state's rights". 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Expand where?
>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>    All new territories and states. 
>>> 
>>> They wanted slavery to be legal just as the Union wanted it
>>> to be illegal.  Remember we are talking about a country
>>> separate from the US and who had it's own laws.
>>> 
>>
>>     Actually "the North" had advocated 
>>popular sovereignty on the issue, as was
>>the case with the Kansas Nebrska Act. But 
>>the South rejected even that. 
> 
> Are you saying they were required to accept it?


     Exactly. All Americans are required 
to obey lawfully enacted and Constitutional 
laws. The South applauded when John Brown 
was hanged for attacking federal property
but then turned around attacked federal 
property themselves. Why should we honor
that with statues?



>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To prevent living under the laws against slavery.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>      So you admit secession was about slavery. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>      Not "states rights". 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>      Well, that's a start.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The basic issue was whether or not a state could pass laws
>>>>>>>>>>> that were in conflict with federal law and prevent federal
>>>>>>>>>>> law from being enforced in the state.  The particular issue
>>>>>>>>>>> were laws involving slavery.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Did any states secede over the federal
>>>>>>>>>>Slave Fugitive Acts? Many northern states 
>>>>>>>>>>hate them but didn't not attack the government
>>>>>>>>>>over this submission to southern state demands.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The South felt those laws did not apply to them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Prisons are full of people who felt the
>>>>>>>>law didn't apply to them. Is that a legal 
>>>>>>>>justification for violating it?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Persons are not organized and recognized states.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    You don't get to pick and choose what laws
>>>>>>apply to you. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Southern States felt their laws should come first.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     That is unconstitutional per the 
>>>>Supremecy Clause. 
>>> 
>>> Which is why they left the Union and formed the CSA. Nothing
>>> in the Constitution prevented this.
>>> 
>>
>>      So the South was both for states
>>rights (their own) and against state's
>>rights (any new state voting against 
>>slavery).
> 
> The South was for the enforcement of state laws and not
> conflicting federal laws.  Again you are talking about
> Federal law (allowing the issue to be voted upon) and
> existing state laws.  The South wanted each new state to
> make their own laws and not be bound by any Federal law.


   Wrong. The CSA Constitution itself 
(see above) nullified state laws that 
conflicted with their Constitution. 
Where is the respect for "state's rights"
in that? 



>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Did the individual states have the power to negate federal
>>>>>>>>>>> law by passing conflicting state law?  The Union said no.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>    The Supremecy Clause of the Constituion said no.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The states said yes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>    Secession is unconstitutional. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Only by Court interpretation, made after the Civil War.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   There is nothing in the Constution
>>>>>>>>that allows for secession. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There is nothing to prevent it either.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>    Fact. 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for supporting what I said.  In 1862 there was no
>>>>>>>>> legal mechanism for leaving the union or to prevent  states
>>>>>>>>> from leaving the union.  That was only decided on the
>>>>>>>>> battlefield.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     That battlefield being Ft Sumter. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> A part of South Carolina.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nope. SoutH Carolina sold Ft Sumter
>>>>to the US in the 1820's.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United 
>>>>States, all the right, title and claim of South 
>>>>Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the 
>>>>requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, 
>>>>That all processes, civil and criminal issued under 
>>>>the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, 
>>>>shall and may be served and executed upon the same, 
>>>>and any person there being who may be implicated by 
>>>>law; and that the said land, site and structures 
>>>>enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability 
>>>>to pay any tax to this state. Also resolved: That the 
>>>>State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim 
>>>>there be, of any individuals under the authority of 
>>>>this State, to the land hereby ceded."
>>>>https://tinyurl.com/y8v6g4kb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     The Confederacy attacked America, 
>>>>>>>>why should we "honor" that with statues?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That is a modern viewpoint.  At the time it was the Union
>>>>>>> and the CSA.  The Union considered the states as still part
>>>>>>> of the union.  The CSA did not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     States do not get to "consider" what laws
>>>>>>they will obey. 
>>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> That was not the issue.  The South considered their laws
>>>>> should apply when Federal laws were different.  Congress had
>>>>> no right to pass laws that conflicted with State laws.
>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>    1) What laws? Congress passed no laws
>>>>limiting slavery before the South seceded. 
>>> 
>>> The election of 1860 had the issue of slavery as a major par
>>> of the campaign and the Republican Party had stated they
>>> would make slavery illegal.
>>
>>
>>     Lincoln only won 39% of the vote, his
>>opinions were hardly the force of law. 
> 
> No President can pas laws.  Only Congress can do that.  The
> election of 1860 put enough people in power to pass laws
> against slavery.  The new Congress and President wee sworn
> in on March 4, 1861.
> 
> The Provisional CSA Constitution was signed prior to this.
> 

       Exactly. The South seceded without even
trying to negotiate with Lincoln or even the
sympathic Buchanan. 


>>>>
>>>>    2) And even if they did the Supremecy 
>>>>Clause required the states to obey them. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>>> The South disagreed.  So the states involved left and formed
>>> their own country. 
>>
>>
>>      The Southern states didn't have a 
>>problem with the Constitution when they
>>voted to ratify it in 1789.
>>
>>
> No one was trying to pass federal law that conflicted with
> state law.


      The Supremacy Clause was in the
Constititon when the Southern states 
ratifided it. 

      Indeed, the Confederate Constition
had SAME SUPREMACY CLAUSE.


"This Constitution, and the laws of the 
Confederate States made in pursuance 
thereof, and all treaties made, or which 
shall be made, under the authority of the 
Confederate States, shall be the supreme 
law of the land; and the judges in every 
State shall be bound thereby, anything in 
the constitution or laws of any State to 
the contrary notwithstanding."

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Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-25 02:20 +0000
  Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-26 15:38 -0400
    Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-27 18:31 +0000
      Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-27 13:58 -0600
        Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 13:54 -0700
          Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 16:46 -0600
            Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:57 -0700
      Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-28 14:27 -0400
        Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-29 02:08 +0000
          Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.corn> - 2026-05-29 13:53 -0700
            Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 16:04 -0600
              Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:52 -0700
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 18:21 -0600
                Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 19:30 -0700
          Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-31 10:58 -0400
            Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-31 18:07 +0000
              Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-02 19:02 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-03 13:22 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-04 16:29 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-05 01:47 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-05 06:37 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-05 13:17 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-05 18:28 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-06 14:23 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-07 01:10 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-08 13:52 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-09 07:56 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-12 02:39 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-12 06:02 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-14 14:20 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-14 15:55 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-17 14:00 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-17 10:33 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 14:36 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 01:25 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 09:42 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-20 14:26 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 15:33 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 23:23 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 14:08 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 18:48 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 23:21 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 14:16 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 08:49 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-22 02:01 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 20:24 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-22 06:46 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 10:28 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-22 10:09 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:32 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:45 -0700
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:38 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-23 20:10 -0700
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 06:43 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-25 22:53 -0700
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 05:10 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:45 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 09:54 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-27 14:19 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-27 11:38 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 02:26 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 08:15 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 08:39 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:32 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 13:37 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:46 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 18:56 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 13:43 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 10:24 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 17:56 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 14:48 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-25 13:58 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-25 11:07 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:27 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 10:05 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 02:38 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 08:36 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 13:54 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 18:28 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-30 02:29 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-30 04:56 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:47 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 12:33 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 17:57 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 14:50 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-25 01:45 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-25 02:44 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 11:59 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:45 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 11:09 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 18:00 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:46 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 19:01 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 18:15 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 02:22 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-19 05:41 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 09:53 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 18:14 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 01:30 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 10:43 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-20 09:20 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 13:59 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 08:35 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 19:09 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 17:16 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-22 06:51 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:23 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:43 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 18:34 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 19:04 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:44 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:16 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:58 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 13:26 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 10:32 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:38 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 10:09 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-26 09:21 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 11:08 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:43 -0600
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 19:12 -0400
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> - 2026-06-19 09:01 -0700
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Amal Bond <ab@ifx.net> - 2026-06-20 02:11 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> - 2026-06-18 20:30 -0700
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-20 02:07 +0000
                Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-19 22:34 -0600
  Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-29 02:29 -0400

csiph-web