Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #461153
| Newsgroups | rec.arts.sf.written, sci.physics, alt.astronomy |
|---|---|
| Subject | Re: moon landing hoax |
| From | Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> |
| References | (3 earlier) <XnsA6ED63A8B1694taustingmail@69.16.179.43> <o43o96$1g4$1@panix3.panix.com> <XnsA6ED9A1523CB2melchizedek@216.166.97.131> <XnsA6ED8AD276907taustingmail@69.16.179.43> <XnsA6EDEBEFBFD4Fmelchizedek@216.166.97.131> |
| Message-ID | <XnsA6EDCF4F09C60taustingmail@69.16.179.42> (permalink) |
| Organization | Forte - www.forteinc.com |
| Date | 2016-12-29 20:22 -0700 |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote in
news:XnsA6EDEBEFBFD4Fmelchizedek@216.166.97.131:
> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:XnsA6ED8AD276907taustingmail@69.16.179.43:
>
>> Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:XnsA6ED9A1523CB2melchizedek@216.166.97.131:
>>
>>> wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote in
>>> news:o43o96$1g4$1 @panix3.panix.com:
>>>
>>>> In article <XnsA6ED63A8B1694taustingmail@69.16.179.43>,
>>>> Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> said:
>>>>
>>>>> Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Moon Race came out of the Cold War, and was created as
>>>>>> a piece of superpower rivalry. It really *was* done for the
>>>>>> publicity, for all that it was dressed up in talk of its
>>>>>> scientific value.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not to say if was faked: we really did go there.
>>>>>
>>>>> It *was* a publicity stunt, but it wasn't *just* a publicity
>>>>> stunt. All the sceince, and engineering, was real, and was
>>>>> as much a motivation for the people doing it - or more -
>>>>> than the politics.
>>>>
>>>> Oh yeah. For the Nth time, I recommend tracking down a copy
>>>> of Michael Collins' 1974 autobiography CARRYING THE FIRE.
>>>> It's fascinating in its own light, and then you can re-read
>>>> it while imagining that you're reading the book that in an
>>>> alternate universe won the 1954 Hugo Award for Best Novel.
>>>> Because it would have.
>>>>
>>>> "Of course, Apollo was the god who carried the
>>>> fiery sun across the sky in a chariot, but beyond
>>>> that -- how would you carry fire? Carefully,
>>>> that's how, with lots of planning and at
>>>> considerable risk. It's a delicate cargo, as
>>>> valuable as moon rocks. I carried the fire for six
>>>> years, and now I would like to tell you about it,
>>>> simply and directly as a test pilot must, for the
>>>> trip deserves the telling."
>>>>
>>>> -- wds
>>>
>>> Its a great book - I read it when it first came out.
>>>
>>> Let me put it this way. Without the forcing action of
>>> superpower rivalry, and the cold war pushing missile
>>> technology, do you think we'd have gone to the moon
>>> in 1969? NASA's budget approached 4.5% of the entire federal
>>> budget in 1966-67. Its now less than 0.5%.
>>
>> That the political forces were a critical factor (as in, one
>> without which, the program would never have taken place) does n
>> ot mean it is the *only* factor, or even necessarily the only
>> critical factor.
>>>
>>> The Air Force was working on X-20 DynaSoar, a follow-on
>>> to the X-15. With that, we'd have gotten to low earth
>>> orbit in the mid-late 60s, but in the absence of the
>>> USSR, there'd have been little interest or funding to
>>> go further with manned craft.
>>
>> The military had plenty of reasons to further pursue the
>> development of manned spacecraft, and had plans beyond the
>> X-20. A *great* deal of science fiction from the day was based
>> on the assumption that the development of spacecraft would, in
>> fact, be driven by military needs, because it certainly looked
>> that way until Eisenhower decided (and probably correctly) that
>> it was politically necessary to a) Let the Soviets get into
>> orbit first, and establish a right to overfly other countries
>> in space, and b) Have the US space program be run entirely by a
>> civilian bureaucracy.
>>
>> But the main reason that the X-20 was cancelled was that the
>> Soviets used BDRs (Big Dumb Rockerts), out of desparation to
>> beat the US to space, and once they did, we had to do so as
>> well. I've seen credible claims (from people who were there)
>> that the X-15 would have pretty much duplicated Alan Shephard's
>> suborbital flight weeks or even months before Freedom 7 if the
>> "big engine" hadn't been delayed by priority being given to the
>> Mercury program.
>>>
>>> I've seen informed guesses that in the absence of Apollo,
>>> we'd only be starting to send humans beyond LEO around now.
>>
>> I find those guess less than credible, given the social forces
>> of the day. The military was progressing steadily, but they did
>> so at a time when steadily wasn't fast enough.
>>
>
> I think
Not very well.
> you're in agreement with me here: St*rm*k*r is correct
> in describing the moon landings as a 'publicity stunt',
But not in the implication that was _all_ it was. The military
*was* doing the same kind of research, and was *ahead* of the
civilian efforts in actual technology. It was just the wrong
technology for the political situation. Their specific immediate
goals were different, but the basic capabilities were the same.
> which
> would not have occured anywhere near 1969 if the US had not been
> in a dick comparison contest with the USSR.
I don't agree. Which is to say, I don't think we know what would
have happened without Sputnik. The military program was
significantly more advanced technologically than the Atlas program,
and Redstone wasn't orbital capable. It would have remained ahead
without Mercury being given priority. It may well be that we
wouldn't have landed on the moon by the end of 1969, but it's
equally possible that we'd have been there soon after and _still_
be there. But too much is classified for us to know.
--
Terry Austin
Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Back to rec.arts.sf.written | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
moon landing hoax The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-28 00:31 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-12-28 21:59 +1100
Re: moon landing hoax The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-28 09:13 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax "Bast" <fakename@nomail.invalid> - 2016-12-28 12:34 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-28 22:25 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 09:43 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 09:47 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-29 14:30 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 14:08 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 13:38 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 22:11 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 20:22 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-30 14:21 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-30 12:06 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-30 15:38 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-30 13:06 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-12-30 17:28 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-01 09:38 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-29 14:23 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 17:25 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-29 15:29 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-03 12:31 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-03 13:48 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 14:54 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 14:51 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-12-30 14:54 +0000
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-30 10:46 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-30 21:00 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-30 22:53 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-31 13:01 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-31 10:15 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2017-01-02 18:07 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2017-01-02 18:39 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-01 09:40 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-12-31 14:57 +0000
Re: moon landing hoax "Bast" <fakename@nomail.invalid> - 2017-01-02 01:15 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 10:19 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 15:19 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 13:38 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 14:58 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 17:08 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 16:17 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-03 16:25 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 16:33 -0700
Gutless whining... (was Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-03 16:34 -0800
Re: Gutless whining... (was Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 22:30 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 21:55 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2017-01-03 20:25 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 06:23 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2017-01-04 14:10 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 14:30 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 14:39 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 12:51 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 13:16 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-05 20:45 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 22:20 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 10:36 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 12:25 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 13:57 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2017-01-08 08:56 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 12:58 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 18:37 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2017-01-05 22:08 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-06 08:23 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2017-01-06 21:56 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-07 06:13 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-07 13:20 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-07 18:38 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-07 16:52 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-07 17:07 -0700
Gutless whining (was Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-07 18:16 -0800
Re: Gutless whining (was Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 18:44 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2017-01-07 17:01 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-07 19:34 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 14:25 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 13:35 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 19:17 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-09 17:30 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 22:14 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-09 20:43 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2017-01-11 13:15 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-11 13:17 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2017-01-11 13:58 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2017-01-11 15:56 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2017-01-10 00:38 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-10 12:01 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2017-01-11 13:16 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 12:53 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 19:44 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 22:11 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 11:59 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 21:25 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 11:56 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 13:33 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 17:40 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2017-01-04 16:35 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 19:32 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 13:00 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 14:36 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2017-01-05 00:09 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 23:29 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-01-05 17:49 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 15:00 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 17:18 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-01-05 19:12 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 16:40 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2017-01-05 20:01 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 22:19 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 13:24 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 11:56 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-06 00:10 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 09:17 -0700
Gutless whining (was Re: moon landing hoax Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-01-06 09:54 -0800
Re: Gutless whining (was Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 10:00 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2017-01-06 08:21 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 09:17 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-01-06 17:04 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 13:16 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 14:14 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax T Guy <tim.bateman@redbridge.gov.uk> - 2016-12-31 05:47 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-31 09:37 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 15:15 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-31 13:05 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-28 18:59 -0500
Re: moon landing hoax Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 16:23 -0700
Re: moon landing hoax The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-12-28 16:28 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Sergio <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2016-12-28 14:29 -0600
Re: moon landing hoax Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-31 08:20 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-12-31 09:09 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-31 09:55 -0800
Re: moon landing hoax synthius2002@yahoo.com - 2017-01-09 08:31 -0800
csiph-web