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Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says

Newsgroups rec.arts.sf.written, sci.physics, alt.astronomy
Subject Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says
From Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com>
References (7 earlier) <cca5cd-ctl.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <XnsA694AADE79DC3melchizedek@216.166.97.131> <MPG.3259ffa6f081eacf98a5cb@news.eternal-september.org> <nspoon$rmn$1@gioia.aioe.org> <nss4hj$8r6$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
Organization dis
Message-ID <XnsA695D8AE44402melchizedek@216.166.97.131> (permalink)
Date 2016-10-02 20:17 -0500

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote in
news:nss4hj$8r6$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de: 

> Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> schrieb:
> 
>> They need a coal plant to provide coal and coke for the steel mills.
>>
>> They need mining equipment to mine the iron ore, and water.  How do
>> you get a 30 ton truck up on Mars ?   order it from Amazon, free
>> shipping ? 
>>
>>
>> They need to generate O2, a lot of it. Where are they going to get
>> that ? 
> 
> If you have enough power (and indeed, this is a big if) you can split
> CO2 into CO and O2 using solid state electrolysis.
> 
> http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120001775.pdf
> 
> You can also do this via a multi-stage reaction if you have
> hydrogen (CO2 + H2 <-> CO + H2O).  Hydrogen you can get from water
> from electrolysis.  Once you've got carbon monoxide and hydrogen
> (syngas), you can start your carbon chemistry chain.
> 
> It's doable, but it's hellishly complex.  Here, we manage by having
> lots and lots of different chemical companies, making the building
> blocks for each other until a product finally reaches the end
> consumer. 
> 
> Want an example?  Well, on Mars you should be able to build a
> spacesuit with a Polycarbonate bubble.  How do you do that?
> 
> Well, you start with syngas and make hydrocarbons (you'll need that to
> get the oxygen out).  You put those hydrocarbons through a steam
> cracker and/or catalytic reformer to make benzene and propylene. 
> Steam crackers are about the biggest and most complex chemical plants
> of them all. Catalytic reformers use platinum or rhenium catalysts, so
> you'd better stock up on these.  Well, at least the transport costs
> according to Musk will be low compared to what they cost on Earth, so
> that's OK. 
> 
> So, we've got benzene and propylene.  You make this into cumene using
> phosphoric acid as catalyst (good thing you built up that phosphoric
> acid plant...).  Cuemene you oxydize into cumene hydroperoxide in
> an acidic medium (have that NaCl elextrolysis running, right?) to
> give you phenol and acetone.
> 
> Throw away half the acetone and make the rest into Bisphenol A,
> using, what... an ion exchange catalyst.  Good thing we have that
> plant making acidic ion exchange resins up and running, right?
> For this, we only need styrene, sulfuric acid, a crosslinker and....
> 
> In the next plant, you make up Cl2 and phosgene from it and use this
> and BPA plus NaOH to make your polycarbonate in another interesting
> process using yet another... you just knew it... catalyst.
> Good thing we started manufacturing that before ever starting
> up our Polycarbonate plant.
> 
> So now, you've got your first pellet of Polycarbonat to put into...
> what plastics processing machine?
> 
> Of course, a spacesuit helmet that yellows and cracks on exposure
> to UV light might not be good on Mars.  Did you remember to put
> in those UV absorbers, which are a whole different branch of
> chemistry?  Ugh, I'm glad we didn't forget those either.
> 
> And all that, just to make a spacesuit bubble from Polycarbonate.
> 
> Let's talk about that oil-resistant gasket made from nitrile
> rubber next...

Thanks. This is something that concerns me. The one that I think
about isn't plastics, it's microprocessors. Modern culture is
deeply dependent on computers, microprocessors, and microcontrollers,
as well as a myriad other chips.

The underlying minimal infrastructure to build integrated circuits is
vast.

Can we simplify this? Is there a lower tech level at which a Mars colony
could be self sustaining? One where they can slowly work up their tech
level to higher levels (with full reference to stuff that's already been
done)?.

They need to maintain atmosphere.
They need to be able to grow food, and obtain water.
They need enough energy to do the above.

To improve, they need to be able to expand their colony.
To improve, they need to be able to find new resources.
To improve, they need to be able to increase their available energy.

What's the minimum tech for the first goals? For the secondary goals?

pt

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1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 15:42 -0700
  Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-30 19:50 -0500
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 20:43 -0500
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 21:16 -0500
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 21:22 -0500
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-30 22:47 -0500
            Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-10-01 13:48 +0000
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum198@pants.btinternet.com> - 2016-10-01 15:27 +0100
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 09:53 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum198@pants.btinternet.com> - 2016-10-01 21:53 +0100
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 16:06 -0500
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-02 00:18 -0400
            Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 09:31 -0500
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 09:57 -0500
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 18:03 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 15:47 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 16:10 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 21:15 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 16:21 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 22:12 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 17:28 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 22:51 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 21:26 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-08 05:32 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 20:25 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 03:14 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-08 13:59 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-10-09 00:44 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 22:30 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:16 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 22:28 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-02 02:18 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:49 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:47 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:17 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 19:44 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:50 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 20:43 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-02 23:17 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:48 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-03 11:57 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 20:17 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-02 20:48 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 21:10 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-03 05:14 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-03 14:45 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 00:12 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-04 12:32 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 18:41 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-04 14:59 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 19:44 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-04 16:04 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-10-04 21:45 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-04 22:12 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-04 16:13 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 00:06 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-04 19:39 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 05:06 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-04 23:07 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 05:24 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-05 21:28 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-05 19:55 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 04:29 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-06 08:01 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:29 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 04:19 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-06 18:02 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:30 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2016-10-08 00:38 +1100
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 21:51 +0000
                Re: Gary R. Schmidt's sig. "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2016-10-28 00:11 +1100
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2016-10-07 00:33 +0200
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-08 14:28 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-10 08:33 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 11:28 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-06 12:00 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 16:51 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:46 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 13:05 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 20:29 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 13:40 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 20:58 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 19:24 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 04:54 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 22:11 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-06 23:10 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 09:15 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-07 10:12 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 10:15 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 14:29 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-08 01:32 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:33 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 04:39 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:34 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-07 21:55 +0000
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-08 01:47 +0000
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 03:15 +0000
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-10-09 12:07 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:23 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-10-09 14:41 -0400
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-10-09 14:44 -0400
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 20:53 -0500
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lifer <lifer@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 00:53 +0200
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-10 01:16 -0400
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-11 00:49 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 22:05 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-10-11 05:57 -0700
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-10-14 18:47 -0700
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                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-14 19:12 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-14 23:27 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-14 21:37 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-14 22:09 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 17:52 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:23 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-06 17:31 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 16:14 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-06 18:48 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 16:53 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 10:15 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 14:37 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 13:14 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 17:30 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 15:45 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-07 22:22 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 21:25 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-08 13:43 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-10-08 12:10 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:35 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:34 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-08 16:46 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 15:55 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 12:19 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 11:23 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 18:39 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 20:39 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 23:00 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-10-09 21:09 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 08:27 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 09:08 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 11:21 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 14:45 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 19:57 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 18:51 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 09:07 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 11:24 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 14:45 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-10 20:01 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 18:51 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-07 22:01 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 14:33 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 16:45 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-06 16:50 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-06 20:42 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-07 03:58 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 09:16 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-10-07 17:12 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-10-06 06:53 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-06 07:58 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-06 08:08 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-06 18:38 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-04 15:56 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 00:14 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-04 19:39 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-05 05:25 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-04 15:28 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 04:39 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-13 18:49 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-13 21:53 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-13 22:40 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-14 10:49 -0700
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-02 22:32 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-03 05:15 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 21:53 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 11:19 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-09 18:06 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-10-09 17:43 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 17:01 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-09 18:35 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-09 21:50 -0700
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 17:23 -0500
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 05:30 +0000
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 09:35 -0500
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:17 +0300
            Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 18:12 +0000
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-02 01:17 +0300
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 19:08 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 00:11 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:50 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:26 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 20:47 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 00:09 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-02 22:06 +0300
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:54 -0400
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 23:40 +0000
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 08:29 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-03 13:20 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 20:46 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 21:27 -0500
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 16:56 -0400
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-01 18:07 +0000
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-10-01 12:06 -0700
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-10-01 12:04 -0700
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 19:24 -0700
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 11:38 -0700
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 11:53 -0700
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-01 15:20 -0500
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 12:00 -0700
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-10-01 12:01 -0700
  Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says SteveGG <casagiannoni@optonline.net> - 2016-10-02 09:02 -0400
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-02 11:26 -0400
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-10-02 16:56 +0000
        Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says SteveGG <casagiannoni@optonline.net> - 2016-10-02 19:53 -0400
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-03 08:30 -0500
            Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-10-03 13:41 +0000
            Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says "Peter Bender" <pbender@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-04 07:00 +0200
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-10-04 04:43 -0700
                Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-04 13:56 -0700
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-04 10:25 -0500
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-03 13:41 -0700
          Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-05 17:37 +0200
            Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-05 11:20 -0700
              Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-10-05 14:11 -0500
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-10-05 17:36 +0200
  Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Madawc Williams <madawcnow@gmail.com> - 2016-10-03 01:04 -0700
    Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-10-03 12:02 +0000
      Re: 1st Mars Colonists Should Be 'Prepared to Die,' Elon Musk Says Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-05 10:06 -0700

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