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Re: two's complement idea

Subject Re: two's complement idea
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
References (3 earlier) <r0a6k9$569$1@dont-email.me> <KqrWF.100712$UPz1.15399@fx15.am4> <h8vqe4Fiqq9U1@mid.individual.net> <4hBWF.107660$LY2.60603@fx23.am4> <h9096oFltbkU1@mid.individual.net>
From Bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Message-ID <OWCWF.89705$OZ3.35385@fx28.am4> (permalink)
Organization virginmedia.com
Date 2020-01-24 14:11 +0000

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On 24/01/2020 13:19, Bo Persson wrote:
> On 2020-01-24 at 13:19, Bart wrote:
>> On 24/01/2020 09:07, Bo Persson wrote:
>>> On 2020-01-24 at 02:06, Bart wrote:
>>>> On 22/01/2020 19:04, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
>>
>>>>> What good reasons are left for a literal goto? I can see it in C 
>>>>> for error handling (because it lacks exceptions) - in C++ there is 
>>>>> hardly a good reason IMHO.
>>
>>>> Even with this, I think my incidence of using goto is once per 400 
>>>> lines or so, so 'spaghetti code' is unlikely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I find that an extremely high use of goto. Would rather expect once 
>>> in a million lines, or so.
>>
>> IIRC 'goto' in the Linux kernel code was more like once in 200 lines.
>>
>> Some CPython sources I've just tested (all .c files, not .h, in the 
>> ./py directory combined into one 44Kloc file) use "goto " once per 230 
>> lines.
>>
>> On Tiny C sources (again only .c files in main folder), it's once per 
>> 95 lines.
>>
>> On Lua sources however, it's once per 430 lines. (Neither Lua nor 
>> Python   projects have 'goto' in the languages they implement.)
>>
>> Your once in a million lines sounds extreme. None of my projects are 
>> anywhere near that size. goto is inelegant but if it's the simplest 
>> way to code something, then I will use it.
>>
> 
> It wasn't so much about project sizes as about coding for years between 
> each time a goto has seemed even slightly useful.
> 
> 
> Took a quick look at the Tiny C code (random choice tccasm.c) and found 
> some examples of goto between different cases of a switch statement, 
> goto from the if branch to the else part of an if-statement.
> 
> And this beauty:
> 
>      redo:
>          if (tok == '#') {
>              /* horrible gas comment */
>              while (tok != TOK_LINEFEED)
>                  next();
>          } else if (tok >= TOK_ASMDIR_FIRST && tok <= TOK_ASMDIR_LAST) {
>              asm_parse_directive(s1, global);
>          } else if (tok == TOK_PPNUM) {
>              const char *p;
>              int n;
>              p = tokc.str.data;
>              n = strtoul(p, (char **)&p, 10);
>              if (*p != '\0')
>                  expect("':'");
>              /* new local label */
>              asm_new_label(s1, asm_get_local_label_name(s1, n), 1);
>              next();
>              skip(':');
>              goto redo;
>          } else if (tok >= TOK_IDENT) {
>              /* instruction or label */
>              opcode = tok;
>              next();
>              if (tok == ':') {
>                  /* new label */
>                  asm_new_label(s1, opcode, 0);
>                  next();
>                  goto redo;
>              } else if (tok == '=') {
>          set_symbol(s1, opcode);
>                  goto redo;
>              } else {
>                  asm_opcode(s1, opcode);
>              }
>          }
> 
> where you have 3 goto's back to redo, instead of a for(;;) and breaks 
> for the cases when you don't want to redo anything. Not an example to 
> follow!

That does look poor. But bear in mind, this block is already part of an 
outer for(;;) loop.

With nested loops, and with a lot of the code using switch rather than 
if-else, 'break' is under some pressure: you can't use it to jump out of 
a loop if inside a switch, and you can't use it to jump out of an outer 
loop whether in a switch or not.

(And conversely, if you have 'break' inside an if-else chain inside a 
loop, you can't convert the if-else chain into a switch, without finding 
alternatives to those breaks, if you've even spotted the issue.)

I think this example belongs to my first use-case: while developing, you 
temporarily put in thesedirty fixes to get things to work, with a mind 
to reviewing later when you have the full picture of the final working 
code. This apparently never got done.

But remember, Tiny C is probably the world's fastest C compiler; you 
have to cut it some slack!

(Also, I believe Tiny C started off as an IOCCC entry.)

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Thread

Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 12:19 -0800
  Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 00:14 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 09:15 +0100
      Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-11-29 10:58 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 12:49 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-12-07 07:53 -0800
      Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-07 08:22 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 20:44 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-10 23:44 -0800
            Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-14 07:08 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-14 08:42 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-21 02:09 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-21 05:14 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2020-01-21 13:08 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-22 00:07 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-21 23:21 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 01:51 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-22 11:28 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 11:52 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-22 04:47 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:19 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-02 08:07 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-21 16:44 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-21 20:01 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-22 11:26 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2020-01-22 20:04 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 11:30 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-22 19:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-23 10:03 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-23 09:24 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-24 07:29 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-23 10:03 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2020-01-23 10:09 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-23 09:29 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 01:08 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-24 12:27 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 01:06 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2020-01-24 10:07 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 11:36 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-24 17:34 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-24 17:57 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 12:19 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2020-01-24 14:19 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 14:11 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 17:26 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 17:35 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 22:27 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-24 23:21 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-25 11:06 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 22:12 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-24 23:24 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-25 09:04 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-25 04:15 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 19:55 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 00:05 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 01:19 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-25 19:50 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 11:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-25 13:42 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 14:58 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 07:58 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:34 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-25 12:41 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-26 16:08 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 02:20 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-27 15:03 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-15 06:44 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-03-06 10:18 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:05 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-04-02 20:03 +0300
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 12:37 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 07:45 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 19:56 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 09:49 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 21:33 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 11:00 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 22:23 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 11:46 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-26 10:55 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-26 03:47 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:28 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-25 22:22 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-25 18:24 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 12:54 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 12:44 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 14:58 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 14:53 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 19:10 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 13:20 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 20:51 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 21:02 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-26 19:06 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-27 18:50 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 14:18 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-27 22:13 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-27 21:38 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 19:37 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-27 19:15 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2020-01-28 11:45 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-27 16:31 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-01-26 18:50 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-26 18:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 20:46 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 13:14 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 22:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 21:06 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-28 13:08 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:50 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-27 08:21 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:14 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:12 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 07:48 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 18:46 +0100

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