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Groups > linux.debian.devel > #116399
| From | Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.devel |
| Subject | Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion |
| Date | 2025-03-10 19:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <KoQcF-54Lv-15@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <Koqid-4O9k-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <Kor4B-4OHE-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <KorQZ-4Phm-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <KoGQ2-4YTr-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <KoJ1v-50aR-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | linux.* mail to news gateway |
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On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:56:28AM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote: >> I still haven't heard arguments why people refuse to use an installer >> that comes with non-free firmware, asks whether this firmware should >> be used, and if answered "no", none of this non-free firmware ends up >> in the installed system. The resulting system is free regardless >> whether there was non-free firmware on the installation images. > >https://www.gnu.org/distros/optionally-free-not-enough.html > >https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/install-fest-devil.html I've missed the second link initially, so I'll quote it for people who missed it too or decided not to click: """ My new idea is that the install fest could allow the devil to hang around, off in a corner of the hall, or the next room. (Actually, a human being wearing sign saying “The Devil,” and maybe a toy mask or horns.) The devil would offer to install nonfree drivers in the user's machine to make more parts of the computer function, explaining to the user that the cost of this is using a nonfree (unjust) program. The install fest would tolerate the devil's presence but not officially sponsor the devil, or publicize the devil's availability. Therefore, the users who accept the devil's deal would clearly see that the devil installed the nonfree drivers, not the install fest. The install fest would not be morally compromised by the devil's actions, so it could retain full moral authority when it talks about the imperative for freedom. Those users that get nonfree drivers would see what their moral cost is, and that there are people in the community who refuse to pay that cost. They would have the chance to reflect afterwards on the situation that their flawed computers have put them in, and about how to change that situation, in the small and in the large. """ -- WBR, wRAR
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Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-07 19:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Bill Allombert <ballombe@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 20:10 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-08 21:10 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Aurélien COUDERC <libre@coucouf.fr> - 2025-03-08 22:10 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-08 23:20 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-03-09 00:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2025-03-09 13:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-09 14:30 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2025-03-09 15:10 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-09 16:00 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-03-09 16:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-09 17:00 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-09 17:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2025-03-09 23:10 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-10 11:00 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 11:20 +0100
Re: Salsa pipeline limit Peter B <peter@pblackman.plus.com> - 2025-03-10 15:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2025-03-10 16:10 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-10 09:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-10 12:00 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-10 12:30 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Aurélien COUDERC <libre@coucouf.fr> - 2025-03-10 18:00 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-11 16:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> - 2025-03-11 16:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-12 01:20 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2025-03-12 08:20 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-14 23:20 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 19:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2025-03-09 17:00 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-09 17:20 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2025-03-09 17:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-10 10:00 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 12:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 12:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-10 13:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2025-03-10 14:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 13:40 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 15:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2025-03-10 15:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 17:10 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Geert Stappers <stappers@stappers.nl> - 2025-03-10 18:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-11 09:10 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 10:30 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Stephan Verbücheln <verbuecheln@posteo.de> - 2025-03-10 12:50 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2025-03-09 16:00 +0100
Re: Reconsidering Debian’s Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2025-03-08 21:20 +0100
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