Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you!

From	Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you!
Date	2024-07-07 12:30 +0200
Message-ID	<IXxjz-ru2-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 11:32 +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:
> Soren Stoutner:
> > After reading a number of comments to the email below, I thought I would
> > provide a bit of context for this email and Phil’s excellent work on Mentors.
> > 
> > Recently Phil has taken it upon himself to triage every package that requests
> > sponsorship on mentors.debian.net.  Here is an example of the work he does:
> > 
> > [...]
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I wholehearted agree that Phil is doing a lot of good work here and that 
> it is helpful to all parties involved in d-mentors. From my PoV, what 
> Phil does is so valuable that ideally we would provide it to all 
> sponsored maintainers with minimal latency. For me, that means 
> automating most of what Phil does. Ideally all, but I am not sure all 
> the things Phil does are trivial to automate where we are now.
> 

Many thanks.

> > But I have found Phil’s work to be very helpful, as I have limited time to
> > handle sponsorships.  When I look at a package Phil has endorsed, I can be
> > sure that the simple and obvious things have already been taken care of.
> > 
> 
> Thinking a bit more on this and its long term sustainability, I think we 
> have a spot here where we could automate the process a lot. If we look 
> at the list of things Phil does:
> 
>   1. Build:
> 
>      Automate-able if we had good sandboxes/throw away build machines.
> 
>   2. Lintian:
> 
>      I think mentors.d.o already does this. But it only works on the
>      artifacts uploaded and Phil probably enriches this.
> 
>   3. Licenses:
> 
>      While ideally, we would want this to be automatic, I think we do not
>      have a good solution to this and I doubt we get it any time soon.
> 
>      Though an 80/20 might be in our grasp for someone interested and
>      I do not think it would need to depend on 1).
> 
>   4. Build Twice (sudo pbuilder build --twice <package>.dsc):
> 
>      Automate-able once 1) is solved.
> 
>   5. Reproducible builds (reporotest):
> 
>      Trivially automate-able once 1) is solved.
> 
>   6. Install/Upgrade:
> 
>      It sounds like something piuparts would check, so I assume this is
>      all solvable once 1) is complete.
> 
>   7. Curating packages that pass these checks to various prospective
>      sponsors (such as the mail we are all replying to)
> 
> These automations would not replace Phil since Phil in "failure" cases 
> provides suggestions on how to move forward. This part we would ideally 
> automate as well, but that is a much harder problem for most of these 
> checks. Still, having a "red/green" marker would enable newcomers to 
> figure out where they need more effort or assistance.
> 
> The salsa-CI pipeline basically does most of these (3+7 being very clear 
> exceptions, do not remember if 4 is covered by salsa-ci, but adding it 
> would probably easy) and that infrastructure already has "no trust" code 
> execution flows. Another alternative might be leveraging debusine if 
> that can do the same and is intended for this purpose (did not check).
> 
> In theory, we can reduce this to a already solved problem by linking the 
> RFS/mentors entry with the relevant CI pipeline report where possible 
> and a "Consider using the salsa-CI pipeline" check. Might need 
> tag2upload or dgit (assuming these support mentors.d.o), since that 
> would make the commit visible. Additional bells and whistles can be 
> added to the salsa-CI pipeline in the form of a small machine readable 
> report output that mentors.d.n could render if necessary (etc.)
> 
> I do think it could be a major improvement our sponsorship work flow for 
> both sponsors and sponsored maintainers.
> 
>   1) We promote a streamlined packaging workflow that a large portion of
>      Debian already follows and leverage existing infrastructure. Any
>      updates to our workflow would appear into the sponsor workflow
>      checklist workflow because they are the same underlying checks.
> 
>   2) The workflow provides most of these checks with low latency
>      automation and would save the sponsored maintainers RFS +
>      mentors.d.o upload round trips.
> 
>   3) The process would be a lot more sustainable, since most of it would
>      be automatic.
> 
> Obviously, on paper is doable but it might require ironing out a lot of 
> bends or even not be possible at all. Sadly, I am not volunteering to do 
> it (got too much on my plate already). However, I am putting the idea 
> out there in case someone has time and interest in working on this area.
> 
> I think the primary risk (problem to solve) is linking the mentors.d.o 
> upload to a git commit on salsa and the related pipeline data for that. 
> As said, I hope tag2upload/dgit could be part of the solution here (not 
> sure how those will cope with mentors.d.o versions being a lot more 
> mutable than regular uploads). For everything else, I think most of the 
> heavy lifting have already been done and "just" a matter of gluing it 
> all together.
> 

Being partially or fully automated is fine by me. :-) I would be happy to assist
those who embarked on such a project. There is always work elsewhere in Debian
like the QA Team that I have interest in.

<snip>

Regards

Phil

-- 

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Thread

DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-06 15:50 +0200
  Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2024-07-06 19:00 +0200
  Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! xiao sheng wen(肖盛文) <atzlinux@sina.com> - 2024-07-07 02:00 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-07 03:20 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-07-07 07:40 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Baptiste Beauplat <lyknode@debian.org> - 2024-07-08 21:40 +0200
      Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-09 07:40 +0200
  Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Otto Kekäläinen <otto@debian.org> - 2024-07-07 02:50 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-07 03:10 +0200
  Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-07-07 08:00 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-07-07 08:30 +0200
      Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-07 09:20 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Nilesh Patra <nilesh@debian.org> - 2024-07-07 09:50 +0200
      Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! weepingclown <weepingclown@disroot.org> - 2024-07-07 10:40 +0200
        Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Nilesh Patra <nilesh@debian.org> - 2024-07-07 13:00 +0200
  Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2024-07-07 08:20 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Xiyue Deng <manphiz@gmail.com> - 2024-07-07 08:50 +0200
      Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-07 09:50 +0200
        Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-07-07 23:00 +0200
          Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-07 23:20 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-07 09:50 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Niels Thykier <niels@thykier.net> - 2024-07-07 11:40 +0200
      Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-07 12:30 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2024-07-07 13:30 +0200
      Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-09 11:50 +0200
        Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 14:30 +0200
          Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> - 2024-07-09 14:50 +0200
  Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Jeremy Bícha <jeremy.bicha@canonical.com> - 2024-07-07 16:30 +0200
    Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-07-07 16:40 +0200
  Re: DD's, Debian Mentors needs you! Leandro Cunha <leandrocunha016@gmail.com> - 2024-07-07 23:10 +0200

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