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Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file

From <tomas@tuxteam.de>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file
Date 2024-06-20 07:00 +0200
Message-ID <IRi3U-4cQA-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <IQz6N-3JC2-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <IQESR-3NjL-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <IQUNX-3WZK-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <IR1mp-410r-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <IR6YO-45Ug-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 01:01:44PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 7:09 AM Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:

[...]

> > I strongly disagree.  The system clock is kept on "epoch time", which
> > is the number of seconds since midnight, January 1, 1970 UTC.
> >
> > The system clock doesn't have a time zone of its own.  It just gets
> > converted to a time and date within any given time zone on demand.
> 
> ++.
> 
> The sharp edge is how the RTC clock is set - UTC or localtime. Also
> see <https://wiki.debian.org/DateTime>.

Please don't mix those three things, that makes them just more confusing.

The original topic was the system's time zone. This hasn't anything
to do with the RTC clock, and only peripherally with "the system's
time zone" (of which some, me included, say "there's no such thing",
and others disagree :)

You have

 - the RTC clock. This is *only* looked at at boot time, to init
   the system clock (and when you, as an admin, do "hwclock").
   During those operations, it's important to know which timezone
   the RTC is in, since this one /is/ in "human format. It was
   intended to be read and set by humans, like your kitchen clock,
   back then.

 - the system clock: it boringly counts seconds. Since Epoch.
   Since it has't hours or minutes, let alone weeks or months,
   time zones don't even make sense to it. Sometimes it does
   a leap second, but experts are torn on whether this was a
   good idea at all. Have a look at [1] for an entrance to yet
   another deep time rabbit hole.

 - timezones and stuff: those happen whenever you want to convert
   the system clock to hours, minutes, days, and other human
   related stuff and back.

(if you have good net connectivity, reading the RTC at boot can
be shunned completely, you don't need it anymore).

Please, keep those three at a safe distance.

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Time
-- 
tomás

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Thread

Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 10:20 +0200
  Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Richard <rrosner5@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 15:30 +0200
    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:50 +0200
  Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-16 16:00 +0200
    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:30 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-17 13:00 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 13:30 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:30 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-18 13:10 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:00 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 16:20 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 16:30 +0200
          Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 17:40 +0200
            Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 17:50 +0200
            Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-17 19:30 +0200
              Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:10 +0200
            Re: Time, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:10 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 18:30 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 19:30 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 19:50 +0200
              System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-18 07:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-18 10:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:20 +0200
                RTC, was Re: System time/timezone David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
                Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:20 +0200
                Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-19 21:40 +0200
                Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
                Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
                Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:20 +0200
                Re: RTC, was Re: System time/timezone Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-06-20 05:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-19 06:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-18 13:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-19 06:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-19 13:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 19:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-20 07:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 07:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file tomas@tuxteam.de - 2024-06-20 08:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 04:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-21 05:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-21 06:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-22 18:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 04:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 05:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 07:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-23 08:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-23 15:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-23 16:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-26 15:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-24 15:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-24 15:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2024-06-24 17:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Heriberto Avelino <heriberto.avelino@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 00:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2024-06-24 17:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file eben@gmx.us - 2024-06-24 18:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-24 18:20 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-25 00:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-25 00:20 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-25 00:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-06-25 10:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-26 12:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-26 18:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-26 19:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-28 06:20 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Erwan DAVID <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2024-06-28 07:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2024-06-28 08:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 11:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Crawley <john@bunsenlabs.org> - 2024-06-30 03:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <roy@rtellason.com> - 2024-06-25 20:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 21:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 03:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-23 14:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-24 02:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-06-23 17:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-21 13:20 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 18:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 07:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-21 06:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 05:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-22 07:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-22 17:20 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 04:40 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 05:10 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-06-23 21:50 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 02:30 +0200
                Re: System time/timezone, was Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-06-20 04:00 +0200
      time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-17 17:00 +0200
        Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 17:10 +0200
        Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:20 +0200
          Re: time display was: Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 16:30 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 13:10 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-20 13:20 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-06-20 13:30 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:30 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 16:10 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-21 06:30 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 10:40 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 16:10 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:00 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-22 18:30 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-23 06:30 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 10:40 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 13:20 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-06-25 14:30 +0200
                Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-25 15:00 +0200
                Australia/Eucla timezone abbreviation (was: Re: Maximum size  .bash_aliases file) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 17:20 +0200
            Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-22 17:10 +0200
              Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 10:50 +0200
  Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 06:40 +0200
    Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:50 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 11:20 +0200
        Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 14:10 +0200
          Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-17 14:20 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-17 13:30 +0200
      Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-06-17 17:50 +0200
  Re: Maximum size .bash_aliases file Keith Bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 11:00 +0200

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