Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building

From	Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building
Date	2024-06-18 00:40 +0200
Message-ID	<IQtb3-3FYN-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<IMeDD-YqM-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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Sorry for being late to this discussion, but there are a few points 
and a suggestion I'd like to make:


1. Reproducibility is not a big concern

Quoting policy:

  Packages should build reproducibly, which for the purposes of this 
  document means that given
  ...
  - a set of environment variable values;
  ...
  repeatedly building the source package
  ...
  with ... exactly those environment variable values set 
  will produce bit-for-bit identical binary packages.

There is also the practical side that our buildds already set LC_ALL=C.UTF-8,
in main one can already assume that every package in a release has been 
built with in this environment.


2. RC is what does FTBFS on the buildds

Usually a FTBFS is RC only when it happens on the buildds.

FTBFS with non-C.UTF-8 locales itself is not RC,
just like FTBFS on single-core machines is not RC.

These are of course still bugs, especially if a different UTF-8 locale 
results in test failures that indicate runtime issues.


3. Importance of build-time diversity

Less than 3 years ago, having build-arch/build-indep targets in 
debian/rules was a usecase important enought for some people that a MBF 
with hundreds of RC bugs was done and many people (including myself) 
spent time fixing this usecase by adding build-arch/build-indep targets 
to packages.

Calling the clean target manually is something I frequently do.

Doing a build test or autopkgtest with an Estonian or Turkish locale 
is hard/impossible when something (no matter whether debian/rules or
debhelper or dpkg-buildpackage) enforces C.UTF-8.


4. C.UTF-8 or *some* UTF-8 locale?

The main problems are with non-UTF-8 locales, it might be 
uncontroversial to declare building with a non-UTF-8 locale 
unsupported and make dpkg-buildpackage reject this with a message like:

  Building with a non-UTF-8 locale is no longer supported, please do
    LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 dpkg-buildpackage

This should be sufficient to address the root cause of all/most of the 
current manual and tooling settings of C.UTF-8, and could actually 
enable useful testbuilds for finding problems for Turkish users.


cu
Adrian

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Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Gioele Barabucci <gioele@svario.it> - 2024-06-06 08:20 +0200
  Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 11:20 +0200
  Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 11:50 +0200
    Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues <josch@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 12:10 +0200
      Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues <josch@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 13:00 +0200
        Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 13:40 +0200
        Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 17:00 +0200
      Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 16:40 +0200
        Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Jeremy Bícha <jeremy.bicha@canonical.com> - 2024-06-06 16:50 +0200
        Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2024-06-07 14:40 +0200
          Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-06-07 15:40 +0200
            Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Alexandre Detiste <alexandre.detiste@gmail.com> - 2024-06-07 15:50 +0200
              Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-06-07 17:50 +0200
                Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-06-10 17:30 +0200
                Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-06-11 11:30 +0200
              Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2024-07-02 03:50 +0200
                Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-02 11:00 +0200
                Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2024-07-02 14:40 +0200
                Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Alexandre Detiste <alexandre.detiste@gmail.com> - 2024-07-06 13:20 +0200
                Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2024-08-03 19:20 +0200
                Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-08-03 20:20 +0200
                Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2025-02-23 13:50 +0100
          Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Gioele Barabucci <gioele@svario.it> - 2024-06-07 16:20 +0200
          Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-06-07 18:30 +0200
            Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2024-08-03 15:30 +0200
      Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-06-06 18:50 +0200
      Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 19:00 +0200
        Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-06-07 10:40 +0200
    Locale sanitizer (Was: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package  building) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-06-06 14:50 +0200
      Re: Locale sanitizer (Was: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package  building) Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-06-06 15:40 +0200
  Re: Mandatory LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 during package building Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2024-06-18 00:40 +0200

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