Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]

From	<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]
Date	2023-11-03 18:30 +0100
Message-ID	<Hw69z-2SVB-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <HvSpX-2II6-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <HvSSZ-2Jd8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <HvV4t-2KI6-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <HvX6h-2M1R-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <Hw3Y5-2Ros-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

Show all headers | View raw

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] - view raw

On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 03:46:38PM +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> writes:
> 
> > tomas@tuxteam.de (12023-11-03):
> >> The other is related: folder has become the culture of those
> >> who want to "sell you knowledge", i.e. of those whose business
> >> model is based on keeping you dumb.
> >
> > Ear, ear!
> >
> > Also, that metaphor is easy, but it is very shaky. In the physical
> > world, I have *sometimes* seen a folder inside a folder, but a folder
> > inside a folder inside a folder inside a folder…
> 
> If I think of the main non-digital directory I have dealt with in my
> life it was a telephone directory.  That also did not contain further
> directories within itself.  Surely 'directory' is also just a more or
> less apt metaphor, which may indeed be better if you have a technical
> background or, as Greg correctly pointed out, if you are dealing with
> the Unix command line.

The point I'm trying to make here is that "directory" is better
because it lets the users connect with the available documentation,
thus offering them an easier path towards "dealing with the Unix
command line".

Using a different terminology makes their path more difficult.

I actually don't care which metaphor is "better", but about the
users actually trying to decipher a man page or some kernel doc
or even kernel code. After all, it's EISDIR (that's the symbolic
errno you get when trying to read(2) a directory),  not EISFLDR.

I am a free software person. My "business model" is about users
getting smarter.

We have this incredible gift that you and me and any user can go
and have a look at the spot in the kernel source returning that
error. How about lowering the threshold to that pleasure by using
the right terminologyß

> Regarding Tomas' assertion, I'm not sure I buy into the argument
> regarding dumbing-down.  I am presume it does go on, but I don't really
> think that one is stepping on to Big Tech's slippery slope to stupidity
> by calling a 'directory' a 'folder' any more one would be by calling a
> pointing device a 'mouse' despite its rather limited resemblance to the
> actual rodent.

See above. There /is/ a difference. Not in how good or bad the
metaphor is, but on the actual usage in this context.

Cheers
-- 
t

Thread

How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-01 16:10 +0100
  Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-01 16:10 +0100
    Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 07:50 +0100
      Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2023-11-02 09:00 +0100
  Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-01 19:00 +0100
    How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare contents of two folders against third one?) "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-02 08:20 +0100
      Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2023-11-02 08:50 +0100
      Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 09:00 +0100
        Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2023-11-02 09:50 +0100
          Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 10:00 +0100
            Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to   compare contents of two folders against third one?) yxcv@vienna.at - 2023-11-02 10:10 +0100
        Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-02 15:20 +0100
          Re: How to compare one folder to one directory <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 15:30 +0100
            Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-02 16:20 +0100
              Re: How to compare one folder to one directory debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-02 22:00 +0100
                Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 22:10 +0100
              Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-03 03:50 +0100
                Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-11-03 04:20 +0100
                On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 06:40 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 08:50 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-03 09:00 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 03:50 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 06:40 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Tom Browder <tom.browder@gmail.com> - 2023-11-07 12:00 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-03 16:10 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 16:20 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-03 17:30 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2023-11-06 17:00 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-06 17:10 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-11-06 18:20 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-03 16:40 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to  compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 18:40 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to  compare...] John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 03:40 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to  compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 06:40 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 18:30 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-11-03 18:30 +0100
                Re: On folders vs. directories and history "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-03 19:20 +0100
                Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Mihamina RKTMB <mihamina@atscom.io> - 2023-11-03 09:10 +0100
                Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 11:40 +0100
                Re: How to compare one folder to one directory Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 11:50 +0100
                Re: How to compare one folder to one directory John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 04:20 +0100
      Re: How to compare one folder to one directory "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-02 10:20 +0100
      Re: How to compare one folder to one directory (was: How to compare  contents of two folders against third one?) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 01:40 +0100
        On weeds and bikesheds [was: How to compare one folder to one  directory] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-03 06:30 +0100
    Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 08:40 +0100
      Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 08:50 +0100
      Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 09:10 +0100
        Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2023-11-02 10:50 +0100
          Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-02 11:00 +0100
          Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-02 11:10 +0100
          Re: How to compare contents of two folders against third one? Michel Verdier <mv524@free.fr> - 2023-11-02 16:20 +0100
    All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents of  two folders against third one?) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-03 17:00 +0100
      Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents  of two folders against third one?) tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-03 18:50 +0100
      Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents  of two folders against third one?) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-03 19:20 +0100
      Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux (was: How to compare contents  of two folders against third one?) Paul Duncan <paul.d@soi-team.org> - 2023-11-07 12:00 +0100
        Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 15:30 +0100
          Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 15:40 +0100
            Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 17:00 +0100
              Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 17:10 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-07 17:50 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-11-07 20:00 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 20:30 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
              Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-07 19:00 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-07 20:40 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-11-07 22:30 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-07 22:30 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 23:00 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 23:50 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 23:00 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2023-11-07 20:50 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 21:00 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-07 21:40 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> - 2023-11-07 22:00 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-07 22:10 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-08 01:00 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-08 13:40 +0100
                Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-08 14:10 +0100
              Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-07 21:30 +0100
          Re: All the unicorns are dead on Linux gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-07 21:00 +0100

csiph-web