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Re: ntpsec as server questions

From Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: ntpsec as server questions
Date 2023-12-07 00:20 +0100
Message-ID <HI9ln-bPbg-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <HI4c2-bL69-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <HI4lH-bLc9-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <HI4vn-bLxi-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <HI4OK-bLIF-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <HI70e-bNxW-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway

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On 12/6/23 15:41, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 06 Dec 2023 at 13:27:40 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 06, 2023 at 01:02:45PM -0500, Pocket wrote:
>>> TZ=POSIX;date
>>> Wed Dec  6 18:00:38 POSIX 2023
>> "POSIX" is not a valid timezone name in Debian 12.  Therefore you're
>> just seeing UTC here.  Giving an invalid TZ always gives you UTC, but
>> with whatever crazy-ass name you used echoed back at you, to give you
>> the illusion that your name was valid.  It's a *huge* pitfall.  I've been
>> bit by this myself.
>>
>>> TZ=America/New_York;date
>>> Wed Dec  6 13:00:21 EST 2023
>>>
>>> TZ=EST5DST;date
>>> Wed Dec  6 13:01:10 EST 2023
>>>
>>> What is the problem?
>> Gods DAMN it.  I didn't want to have to dig through these stupid zone
>> dumps, but you're FORCING my hand.
>>
>> unicorn:~$ zdump -v -c 1918,1950 EST5EDT
>> EST5EDT  -9223372036854775808 = NULL
>> EST5EDT  -9223372036854689408 = NULL
> AAAAAAAA
>
>> EST5EDT  Sun Mar 31 06:59:59 1918 UT = Sun Mar 31 01:59:59 1918 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> EST5EDT  Sun Mar 31 07:00:00 1918 UT = Sun Mar 31 03:00:00 1918 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> EST5EDT  Sun Oct 27 05:59:59 1918 UT = Sun Oct 27 01:59:59 1918 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> EST5EDT  Sun Oct 27 06:00:00 1918 UT = Sun Oct 27 01:00:00 1918 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> EST5EDT  Sun Mar 30 06:59:59 1919 UT = Sun Mar 30 01:59:59 1919 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> EST5EDT  Sun Mar 30 07:00:00 1919 UT = Sun Mar 30 03:00:00 1919 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> EST5EDT  Sun Oct 26 05:59:59 1919 UT = Sun Oct 26 01:59:59 1919 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> EST5EDT  Sun Oct 26 06:00:00 1919 UT = Sun Oct 26 01:00:00 1919 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
> BBBBBBBB
>
>> EST5EDT  Mon Feb  9 06:59:59 1942 UT = Mon Feb  9 01:59:59 1942 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> EST5EDT  Mon Feb  9 07:00:00 1942 UT = Mon Feb  9 03:00:00 1942 EWT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> EST5EDT  Tue Aug 14 22:59:59 1945 UT = Tue Aug 14 18:59:59 1945 EWT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> EST5EDT  Tue Aug 14 23:00:00 1945 UT = Tue Aug 14 19:00:00 1945 EPT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> EST5EDT  Sun Sep 30 05:59:59 1945 UT = Sun Sep 30 01:59:59 1945 EPT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> EST5EDT  Sun Sep 30 06:00:00 1945 UT = Sun Sep 30 01:00:00 1945 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
> CCCCCCCC
>
>> EST5EDT  9223372036854689407 = NULL
>> EST5EDT  9223372036854775807 = NULL
>>
>> OK?  There's dump number one.  Now let's compare to dump number two:
>>
>> unicorn:~$ zdump -v -c 1918,1950 America/New_York
>> America/New_York  -9223372036854775808 = NULL
>> America/New_York  -9223372036854689408 = NULL
>> America/New_York  Sun Mar 31 06:59:59 1918 UT = Sun Mar 31 01:59:59 1918 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> America/New_York  Sun Mar 31 07:00:00 1918 UT = Sun Mar 31 03:00:00 1918 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> America/New_York  Sun Oct 27 05:59:59 1918 UT = Sun Oct 27 01:59:59 1918 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> America/New_York  Sun Oct 27 06:00:00 1918 UT = Sun Oct 27 01:00:00 1918 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> America/New_York  Sun Mar 30 06:59:59 1919 UT = Sun Mar 30 01:59:59 1919 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> America/New_York  Sun Mar 30 07:00:00 1919 UT = Sun Mar 30 03:00:00 1919 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> America/New_York  Sun Oct 26 05:59:59 1919 UT = Sun Oct 26 01:59:59 1919 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> America/New_York  Sun Oct 26 06:00:00 1919 UT = Sun Oct 26 01:00:00 1919 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> America/New_York  Sun Mar 28 06:59:59 1920 UT = Sun Mar 28 01:59:59 1920 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> America/New_York  Sun Mar 28 07:00:00 1920 UT = Sun Mar 28 03:00:00 1920 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> America/New_York  Sun Oct 31 05:59:59 1920 UT = Sun Oct 31 01:59:59 1920 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
>> America/New_York  Sun Oct 31 06:00:00 1920 UT = Sun Oct 31 01:00:00 1920 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
>> [...]
>>
>> I'm truncating this one because it's much longer.  Apparently this one
>> shows every year, even if there are no DST rule changes that year.  What
>> does this mean?  Hell if I know.
> Comparing zdump -v America/New_York | cut -b 19- > /tmp/a-ny
> with      zdump -v EST5EDT | cut -b 10- > /tmp/e5e
>
> shows that the former starts at 1883 (no changes then until 1918,
> AAAAAAAA above), and the latter omits the period 1920–1966, except
> for War Time and Peace Time (between BBBBBBBB and CCCCCCCC).

Because DST was not in force/usage except the metro NYC. Every where 
else didn't use/have it.

That makes EST5DST correct except for NYC and America/New_York 
completely incorrect except of course NYC.

Which is why I prefer to use EST5DST


BTW there isn't any timezone called America/New_York, it is or course 
the Eastern Standard Time Zone.

America/New_your should actually be called America/Eastern.  The POSIX 
EST5DST is closer to being correct.


>
> I've expanded my guesses as to why. I had thought that it might be
> because the "Unix System V approach from New Jersey (insert
> appropriate booing for best effect)" implied that NJ didn't observe
> DST over that period, but perhaps it's just that there's no way to
> determine single dates for changing the clocks.
>
>   "Having rallied the general public's support, the Time Uniformity
>   Committee's goal was accomplished, but only after discovering and
>   disclosing that on the 35-mile stretch of highway (Route 2) between
>   Moundsville, W.V., and Steubenville, Ohio, every bus driver and his
>   passengers had to endure seven time changes!"
>
>   https://www.webexhibits.org//daylightsaving/e.html
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
-- 
It's not easy to be me

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ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 01:50 +0100
  Re: ntpsec as server questions jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-12-04 02:00 +0100
    Re: ntpsec as server questions jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-12-04 02:10 +0100
      Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 10:00 +0100
        Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-04 12:00 +0100
          Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 12:40 +0100
            Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-04 13:20 +0100
              Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 17:00 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-12-04 17:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 22:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-05 04:00 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-04 17:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-04 18:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-04 19:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-16 11:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 22:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-12-04 17:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 22:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Tom Furie <tom@furie.org.uk> - 2023-12-04 17:50 +0100
              Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-04 20:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 22:40 +0100
              Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 20:20 +0100
          Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-04 13:20 +0100
            Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-04 14:00 +0100
            Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 21:30 +0100
              Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-04 21:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-04 22:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-12-05 00:50 +0100
            Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 21:30 +0100
              Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-04 23:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-05 17:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-05 18:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-06 13:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-06 14:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-06 16:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-06 16:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-06 17:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-06 17:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-06 17:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-12-06 17:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-05 18:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-05 18:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-06 06:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-06 17:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-06 18:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-06 18:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-06 18:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-12-06 18:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-06 19:00 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-06 19:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-06 19:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-06 21:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-07 00:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-07 01:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-07 01:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-07 01:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-07 01:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-07 01:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-07 02:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-07 06:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-08 03:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-08 04:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-08 05:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-08 13:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-08 18:00 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-09 12:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-08 13:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-08 14:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-12-08 14:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-08 18:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-06 21:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-07 00:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-07 06:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-07 06:50 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-07 13:20 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-07 14:10 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-12-07 15:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-12-07 15:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-07 17:00 +0100
                Local time in databases (Re: ntpsec as server questions) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-07 16:40 +0100
                Re: Local time in databases (Re: ntpsec as server questions) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-07 17:10 +0100
                Re: Local time in databases (Re: ntpsec as server questions) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-08 03:20 +0100
                Re: Local time in databases (Re: ntpsec as server questions) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2023-12-08 05:20 +0100
                Re: Local time in databases (Re: ntpsec as server questions) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-08 05:40 +0100
                Re: Local time in databases (Re: ntpsec as server questions) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-12-12 18:10 +0100
                Re: Local time in databases David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-17 06:20 +0100
                Re: Local time in databases (Re: ntpsec as server questions) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-08 05:40 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> - 2023-12-06 22:30 +0100
                Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-07 06:50 +0100
              Re: ntpsec as server questions David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-12-05 04:00 +0100
      Re: ntpsec as server questions Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2023-12-04 11:10 +0100
        Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 12:30 +0100
          Re: ntpsec as server questions <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-04 12:50 +0100
  Re: ntpsec as server questions Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-12-04 02:00 +0100
  Re: ntpsec as server questions <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-12-04 06:10 +0100
    Re: ntpsec as server questions Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-12-04 06:30 +0100
      Re: ntpsec as server questions Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-12-04 07:30 +0100
        Re: ntpsec as server questions Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-12-04 08:10 +0100
    Re: ntpsec as server questions gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-12-04 11:00 +0100

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