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Groups > linux.debian.bugs.dist > #1146756

Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited)

From Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org>
Newsgroups linux.debian.bugs.dist, linux.debian.devel
Subject Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited)
Date 2023-05-15 02:50 +0200
Message-ID <Gvuzv-8Xpy-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (8 earlier) <Gu00N-7ZOz-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <Gvtk5-8WKY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <Gvu6t-8Xg0-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <Gu00N-7ZOz-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <Gvu6t-8Xg0-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 01:14, Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> wrote:
>
> Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> writes:
>
> > Why would "software compiled on Debian" fail to work in other
> > environments? Well, there are many reasons actually, people invented
> > containers/flatpaks/snaps exactly for that reason. But nothing do with
> > anything discussed here though, as far as I can tell?
>
> My understanding is that this specific thread is about a mention that we
> may want to change PT_INTERP to /usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 or some
> similar path.
>
> If PT_INTERP points to a file that doesn't exist, the program is obviously
> not going to run.  The Linux x86_64 ABI says it must point to
> /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2.  If we build binaries that use some other
> value, then we are not building ABI-compliant binaries and they may not
> run on other systems.  This is the whole point of an ABI.

This is not about locally compiled software or such, only packages
(and maybe even just a subset of them).

> An obvious specific example of such a system would be one that didn't
> merge /usr and thus only had /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 and not any other
> path, but that's just one obvious example.  There may be others; the whole
> point of an ABI is that you do not change things like this, not even if
> you can't personally imagine why your change wouldn't be harmful.  There's
> a whole process for changing an ABI that involves everyone else agreeing
> as well, and unless one goes through that process, the ABI is what it is.
> Debian not building ABI-compliant binaries would be highly surprising.

That's self-evidently not true, as there are other distributions where
that already happens, it's been already mentioned. Besides, we are not
talking about sacred religious texts - the point is making things
work. If they do, is it _really_ non-compliant/incompatible?

> Incidentally, that remains true even if we only do that in distribution
> packages.  I certainly have copied binaries from a Debian package to other
> Linux systems before for various reasons and expected them to run.  Sure,
> this might not work for other reasons outside of our control, but that's
> no reason to be gratuitously incompatible by breaking the ABI,
> particularly for what seem to be annoyances of our own creation with known
> workarounds.

Thanks, that's the first actual real example mentioned so far. And
it's an interesting one: taking a $random Debian package and using it
on a completely different, non-Debian system. Is that a supported use
case? If so, does that mean that I can go ahead and raise a Severity:
serious bug on any package that doesn't work in such a way?

Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

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Thread

Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-11 00:00 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-11 00:50 +0200
    Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-18 19:30 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <pochu@debian.org> - 2023-05-11 12:40 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-11 14:30 +0200
    Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-11 20:00 +0200
      Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 14:30 +0200
        Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 15:10 +0200
    Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Matthew Vernon <matthew@debian.org> - 2023-05-25 14:10 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-12 07:50 +0200
    Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2023-05-12 10:50 +0200
      Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 12:00 +0200
        Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2023-05-12 12:50 +0200
          Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 13:00 +0200
          Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2023-05-12 13:20 +0200
            Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 14:20 +0200
              Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems  (revisited) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2023-05-12 16:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 17:40 +0200
              Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 01:30 +0200
                Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems  (revisited) Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net> - 2023-05-15 02:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 02:30 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 02:20 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 02:50 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2023-05-15 03:10 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 03:40 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 04:40 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 17:30 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-16 03:50 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2023-05-15 03:00 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues <josch@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 07:00 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com> - 2023-05-15 15:00 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 15:20 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com> - 2023-05-15 18:00 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Matthew Vernon <matthew@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 18:20 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com> - 2023-05-15 18:30 +0200
                Bug#1035904: What does merged /usr bring us Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 20:40 +0200
                Bug#1035904: What does merged /usr bring us Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 20:40 +0200
                Bug#1035904: What does merged /usr bring us Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 20:50 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 19:00 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2023-05-15 15:40 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 16:50 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 20:40 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-05-15 20:00 +0200
    Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-16 04:00 +0200
      Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems  (revisited) Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-05-16 10:30 +0200
        Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-17 01:50 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> - 2023-05-17 22:50 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-18 20:00 +0200
    Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2023-05-18 20:20 +0200
      Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-18 20:30 +0200
        Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-18 20:40 +0200
          Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Matthias Klumpp <matthias@tenstral.net> - 2023-05-18 21:20 +0200
          Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Arnaud Rebillout <arnaudr@debian.org> - 2023-05-19 05:20 +0200
      Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Bastian Blank <waldi@debian.org> - 2023-05-18 21:10 +0200
        Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2023-05-18 21:30 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-19 16:40 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-21 16:30 +0200
    Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-21 17:00 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-21 17:00 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-06-07 06:40 +0200
  Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-06-13 21:20 +0200
    Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org> - 2023-06-13 22:10 +0200
      Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-06-13 22:30 +0200

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