Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm?

From	"G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.project
Subject	Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm?
Date	2022-11-21 19:10 +0100
Message-ID	<FujoZ-5lKO-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<Fu2et-5anl-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <FuhZT-5kK0-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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Hi Jonathan,

Thank you for stepping forward to present yourself for potential
criticism in a discussion forum.  Unfortunately that is the only
laudable aspect I can locate in your message.

At 2022-11-21T15:39:24+0000, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 12:07:53AM +0100, Michael Neuffer wrote:
> > As it was an NMU, this should be easily rectified.
> > Don't let cancel culture win.
> 
> Indeed; my action is not irreversible.

It might in fact be; as I observed earlier, the archive administrators
have some power in this area as well.  But this does not absolve you of
responsibility, to the extent that their (in)action is a foreseeable
consequence of your own actions, particularly if they would regard it as
tedious if they had to deal with the package henceforth, and especially
if they can expect accusations of pro-racist, pro-sexist, and pro-Nazi
attitudes from people just like you if they defer to the wishes of the
uploader when a package is otherwise in technical good order, then you
retain considerable accountability.

> Anyone who has a problem with what I did and believes I should be
> censured or subject to some other form of disciplinary process, please
> just go ahead and do it, don't beat about the bush.

Why ever not?  Why should process be immediate?  If you have erred,
should you not have to worry about the possible consequences to yourself
forever more?  Would you not find it just for a racist, sexist, or Nazi
to endure the remainder of their life with a sword of Damocles dangling
over them?  Even if not just, wouldn't you find it satisfying?

> Anyone who wants to put their name to explicitly racist, sexist and
> pro-nazi material in Debian is free to re-upload it.

I see: you assert only one possible motivation, an inherently repulsive
one, for preserving the status quo ante, and offer yourself up as a
martyr to your noble cause of anti-prejudice.  What a sacrifice.  This
is civil disobedience as cosplay.

You cannot possibly be this simple-minded.  You are putting us on.  If
inspectors were to enter your home and catalogue all of the physical and
digital media in your possession, would they be correct to infer your
personal full-throated endorsement of every utterance they can find
within?  (Don't think you can escape punishment by pointing out
contradictions within such a notional corpus of propositions;
inquisitors curate, too, often to the disadvantage of the suspect.)

If I were your judge--which I am not--I would sentence you to produce
the equivalent of a master's thesis, say ~20,000 words in length, on one
of the following works of your choice, relating it to the processes and
culture of the Debian Project.

1.  _The Open Society and Its Enemies_, Karl Popper
2.  _The Origins of Totalitarianism_, Hannah Arendt
3.  _Doubt: A History_, Jennifer Michael Hecht
4.  _SCUM Manifesto_, Valerie Solanas
5.  _Mapplethorpe: A Biography_, Patricia Morrisroe

I would serve as your academic advisor but would not hold the authority
to claim your task fulfilled--instead, that would be done by a jury of
your peers; if, say, ten Debian developers[1], sponsored the inclusion
of your thesis in the distribution as a package.  (Possibly in non-free,
as I would not insist that your work product be Free Software...simply
that it be freely distributable, as in CC-BY-NC-ND.)

Fortunately for both of our time commitments, I am not empowered to
impose such a sentence.  You might nevertheless wish to consider
developing yourself as a person by reading at least one of the above
with sufficient attention to discuss it intelligently.  If you did, I'd
be interested to hear your thoughts.

Pluralism and diversity work not because everything heard or seen in a
society meets with approval by everyone all of the time; they work
because people practice toleration (contrast: approval) even of speech
or appearance that they find repugnant, because they understand that
their own words or physical presentation might be odious to some.

Regards,
Branden

[1] Thanks to Steve Langasek for suggesting this "unmotivated" number.

Thread

Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-11-19 16:10 +0100
  Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-11-19 17:40 +0100
  Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2022-11-19 17:40 +0100
    Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-11-19 21:50 +0100
      Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-11-19 22:10 +0100
      Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2022-11-19 23:20 +0100
        Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-11-20 01:00 +0100
          Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-11-20 12:00 +0100
            Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2022-11-20 14:20 +0100
            Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-11-20 21:50 +0100
              Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "Roberto A. Foglietta" <roberto.foglietta@gmail.com> - 2022-11-20 22:30 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Michael Neuffer <neuffer@neuffer.com> - 2022-11-20 23:00 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2022-11-20 23:30 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Michael Neuffer <neuffer@neuffer.com> - 2022-11-21 00:50 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2022-11-21 01:00 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "Roberto A. Foglietta" <roberto.foglietta@gmail.com> - 2022-11-21 03:20 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-11-21 08:10 +0100
                Aw: Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Steffen Möller <steffen_moeller@gmx.de> - 2022-11-21 16:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-11-21 03:20 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-11-21 08:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-11-22 04:50 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 17:40 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 18:00 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Hanno 'Rince' Wagner <wagner@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 18:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-11-21 19:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Diederik de Haas <didi.debian@cknow.org> - 2022-11-21 03:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Tiago Bortoletto Vaz <tiago@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 03:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 11:40 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2022-12-14 00:00 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-12-14 10:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2022-12-14 18:50 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "Roberto A. Foglietta" <roberto.foglietta@gmail.com> - 2022-12-14 22:40 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2022-12-14 23:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "Roberto A. Foglietta" <roberto.foglietta@gmail.com> - 2022-12-14 10:10 +0100
              Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 00:50 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 06:00 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-11-21 08:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Sam Hartman <hartmans@suchdamage.org> - 2022-11-21 16:10 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-11-21 21:30 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? nick black <dankamongmen@gmail.com> - 2022-11-21 23:00 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-11-22 06:50 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2022-12-17 20:20 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-12-18 23:20 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-12-19 06:30 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2022-12-19 17:40 +0100
                Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2022-12-20 18:00 +0100
              Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 11:40 +0100
    Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2022-11-21 23:10 +0100
      Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-11-22 07:00 +0100
      Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Alexander Reichle-Schmehl <alexander@alphamar.org> - 2022-11-22 10:50 +0100
  Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Judit Foglszinger <urbec@riseup.net> - 2022-11-20 12:00 +0100
    Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2022-11-20 12:20 +0100
      Re: Fortunes-off - do we need this as a package for Bookworm? David Prévot <david@tilapin.org> - 2022-11-20 15:50 +0100
  Re: Removing software because we disagree with its values Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2022-11-20 21:50 +0100
    Re: Removing software because we disagree with its values "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-11-20 22:00 +0100
      Re: Removing software because we disagree with its values Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2022-11-20 22:30 +0100
      Re: Removing software because we disagree with its values Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-11-21 00:00 +0100
      Re: Removing software because we disagree with its values Diederik de Haas <didi.debian@cknow.org> - 2022-11-21 03:10 +0100
    Re: Removing software because we disagree with its values Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-11-20 23:40 +0100

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