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Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett"

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Nor do you.  The difference is, others understand their experiences
>> and limitations, understand the differences in various fields of
>> programming, and try to expand their knowledge beyond their fields
>> (even when they never actually work on those systems).  They don't
>> extrapolate wildly from one small area of software, and they don't
>> make wild claims with no evidence or reference.
> 
> No one here has experience with systems where they think exception
> -handling should be inappropriate for performance-reasons; that's
> all pure phantasy.
Well, let's see here.. EPOC32 by Psion (later known as Symbian by
Symbian consortium) was a decent RTOS for the time (could reliably mete
out some 10 micros jobs at some 5-10 Mhz CPU -- not a small feat).
"Decent" in a sense of well-written kernel and API *features* that is.
The system gained a lot of traction, was running successful and
significant consumer electronics (e.g. Psion Series 5 palmtop computer
(more powerful than 16-bit Palm Pilot) and the Nokia "Communicators"
series -- first seriously smart phones).

BUT, they made an unfortunate decision to use a proprietary C++ API for
accessing OS services (later they added some C POSIX level as an
after-thought but it was half-hearted and too late so it did not save
the baby).

What was worse than just using C++ API and probably the crux of their
problems and eventual death is that they decided (I am guessing that it
was at advice of some C++ exception aficionado "expert") is to use
exceptions exclusively to communicate OS call failures (remember, all
these calls were C++ APIs). That is, the app programmers (hereinafter
users) did not have a choice of using error code -- unless they did not
use any OS services in their apps -- that was, well, never in my
experience (killed a couple of years developing for the OS).

To relate to your many times reiterated point that exception is
something to use at I/O failure or resource exhaustion only, in my
experience 99+% of system call failures fall squarely to this category.
So I hope you agree (but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong)
that the EPOC32 decision to use C++ exceptions to communicate system
call failures shall agree with your recipe to C++ exception applications.

Here is what happened next:

Early in the game someone at Psion figured out (presumably from hard
experience) that
a)  standard C++ exception handling mechanism with stack unwinding was
too slow for RTOS, I/O errors or not
b) that C++ lack of compile-time-checked exceptions was an invitation
for unsafe, poorly tested and inscrutable software.

Not to be scared (the origins of the system was British and then two
Scandinavian nations and Japan jumped in so I guess Tor and samurai
spirit were with them), they devised a solution to both of the above
minor issues:

-- They modified their embedded gcc port to not unwind C++ stack
automatically (trust me this people knew a thing or two about
performance and their RTOS beat all competition of GUI-capable RTOSes
with accessible API at the time -- I should know because I did the
comparison before deciding to go for it so they must have had a good
reason to do such a labor consuming and controversial thing). Instead
they provided a user-controlled API to "cleanup stack" where people
would manually place their resources. This was supposed to cure a) (and
I guess it did).
-- they created a special naming convention for all functions whereas
the function was affixed with L and/or C letters (by now I forgot
whether they were prefices or suffices) to indicate whether a function
may "leave" (in normal C++ terms, throw an exception) or must take care
of its portion of cleanup stack at normal exit. This was supposed to
mitigate b); you are free to guess how well it worked.
---- To HELP people in following the conventions, they created some code
checker to check that L- functions can only be called from C- functions
or whatever the implications were (can't recall this crap precisely
now); and
---- To ENFORCE the convention in deployed APPs (and not give their
pristine OS a bad name by sloppy app programming) they introduced
(possibly for the first time in history or maybe it is just me who met
this first with them) some production-ids that one had to receive from
Psion (later, probably, Symbian consortium) after they verified the code
for these (and other) conventions AND INDEPENDENTLY TESTED BY EPOC32
engineers and only apps with such production ids could be deployed on
the devices and sold (this was mainly enforced legally, I think; but you
can see Apple is no way first in this kind of bureaucracy in accepting
an app for the platform; the only difference was, it did not cost this
much with EPOC32 IIRC).

Well, the results of these efforts is history. From my experience,
C++-with-exceptions system API was absolutely the biggest reason for
their death. From what I remember from their support mailing lists (that
time social media), the C++ exceptions were by far most hated feature of
the RTOS (truly, it did not have much else to complain about; much later
it started to lag, mainly in GUI features; but this was obviously due to
narrow acceptance by users (app developers) that in turn caused money
issues). A failed (too late, too little) attempt to provide an
alternative limited POSIX API (which is no way perfect in my opinion,
even if they implemented complete POSX; but it would be infinitely
better than C++ API with exceptions) is a proof that the management got
it, too, eventually -- but too late to save it.

What did it leave me with? Bitter after-taste for two lost
could-be-productive years (well, almost, I designed non-EPOC32 software
during that time, too) and life-long resolution to never use C++
exceptions for anything. Have been happy so far following it, never had
to look back. Sometimes I start to think Java-style compile-time-checked
exceptions would not be a bad addition to C++; but then I start to
recall that, in practice, exception handling in Java was always wordier
and not necessarily more readable than scoped status collectors and
return codes in C++ (and measurably slower than return codes, even for
Java land) and such my stupid thought leaves me. Now that std::optional
and std::variant are being standardized (I guess, being borrowed from
Haskel's Maybe and Either and Scala's Option and result) I feel like I
almost have more tools under my belt for error handling than I will ever
need. Bye-bye C++ exceptions, rest in peace..

-Pavel

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"“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2019-08-28 16:11 -0500
  Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-29 02:36 +0000
    Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-29 11:02 +0200
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-08-29 22:21 +1200
        Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-29 13:24 +0200
          Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-08-29 23:35 +1200
            Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-29 20:00 +0200
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-08-29 13:29 -0700
        Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 08:04 +0200
          Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-08-29 23:11 -0700
        Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-30 10:14 +0200
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 07:42 +0200
    Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-29 14:54 +0200
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 08:07 +0200
  Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2019-08-29 05:14 -0500
    Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-08-29 06:08 -0700
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 08:10 +0200
        Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-08-30 01:00 -0700
          Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 10:16 +0200
            Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-08-30 01:26 -0700
              Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 10:33 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-08-30 06:30 -0700
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 15:59 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-08-30 07:42 -0700
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 14:44 +0000
    Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-03 20:07 +0000
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 17:13 -0500
  Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-29 14:53 +0200
    Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-08-29 13:14 +0000
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-29 15:38 +0200
      Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-03 20:09 +0000
        Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-09-04 08:31 +0300
          Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-05 16:55 +0000
            Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-09-05 13:28 -0700
            Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-09-06 02:36 -0700
    Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 08:13 +0200
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 08:38 +0200
        Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 08:51 +0200
          Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 10:13 +0200
            Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 10:18 +0200
              Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 10:31 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 10:39 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 10:43 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 10:47 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-30 11:41 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 11:56 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-30 13:08 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 13:47 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-08-31 18:03 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-31 18:21 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-31 23:39 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-01 05:16 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-09-01 03:21 -0700
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-01 12:25 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-01 12:35 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-09-01 04:13 -0700
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-01 23:18 +1200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-01 14:04 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-02 07:20 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-01 16:03 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-01 18:22 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-09-01 15:23 -0400
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-01 22:39 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-02 06:47 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-09-02 11:12 -0400
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-02 17:52 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-09-02 18:43 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-09-02 13:05 -0400
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-02 19:33 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-09-02 17:16 -0400
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 06:49 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-03 08:31 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 08:39 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-03 09:06 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 09:19 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-03 10:30 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-09-03 07:11 -0400
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 13:17 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-03 15:29 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 15:42 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 15:51 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-09-03 17:35 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 17:43 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-09-03 18:51 +0100
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 20:03 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-03 21:53 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-04 06:42 +0200
                Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-05 16:56 +0000
                Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-09-05 11:07 -0700
                Re: Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-05 19:23 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-06 08:25 +0200
                Re: Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-18 16:55 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-06 07:10 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-06 17:16 +1200
                Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-03 20:33 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-04 06:38 +0200
                Re: "?Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly?: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2019-09-03 22:08 +0000
                Re: "?Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly?: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-04 06:41 +0200
                Re: "?Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly?: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-04 09:13 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-03 21:50 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-09-03 22:43 +0100
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-04 09:24 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-09-03 11:03 -0700
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 12:16 -0700
                Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-03 20:35 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 22:49 -0700
                Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-09-04 00:20 -0700
                Re: Comments on third parties Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-09-07 06:59 -0700
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-09-05 17:17 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-09-05 09:03 -0700
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-09-05 20:18 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-09-05 17:16 -0400
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-09-05 14:40 -0700
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-06 10:05 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-04 09:33 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-03 22:14 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2019-09-04 10:47 +1000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-04 16:56 +1200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-04 09:37 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2019-09-05 22:02 -0400
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-08-31 13:20 +0100
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-08-31 23:45 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-08-30 14:08 +0300
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 13:37 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 13:48 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-08-30 15:18 +0300
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 14:24 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 15:43 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 16:23 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 14:40 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 16:57 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 19:19 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2019-08-31 03:05 +0300
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-08-31 12:18 +1200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-31 11:43 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-08-31 17:17 +0300
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-31 16:28 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-01 00:06 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-09-01 15:49 +0300
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-01 16:12 +0200
                Error handling strategies (was: Rust is the future of systems programming C is the new Assembly) legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-03 20:14 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-08 20:29 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Mel <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2019-08-30 15:42 +0200
                Re: "???Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly???: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2019-08-30 21:03 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-08-31 09:42 +1200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-08-30 23:53 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2019-09-06 06:24 -0500
                Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-06 13:51 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2019-09-06 22:03 -0500
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-07 10:57 -0500
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-07 18:17 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-07 18:48 +0200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-09-08 12:40 +1200
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-09-09 08:59 +0200
                Re: Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-09-09 16:35 +0000
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-09-07 18:09 +0100
                Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2019-09-07 15:32 -0500
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-08-31 04:50 -0700
  Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2019-09-03 18:39 +0000
    Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-03 20:46 +0200
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-09-04 01:07 +0100
      Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" William Ahern <william@25thandClement.com> - 2019-09-03 20:04 -0700
        Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-09-04 06:46 +0200
        Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-09-04 04:48 +0000
          Re: "“Rust is the future of systems programming, C is the new Assembly”: Intel principal engineer, Josh Triplett" "Chris M. Thomasson " <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-09-09 01:09 -0700

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