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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #351663

Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS

From Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS
Date 2016-04-24 14:00 -0700
Message-ID <D3428208.70CF9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> (permalink)
References <D3405DEB.70A8D%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <nfinm33o0j@news7.newsguy.com> <D3424143.70CB5%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <nfjaqg115ph@news6.newsguy.com>

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On 4/24/16, 1:37 PM, in article nfjaqg115ph@news6.newsguy.com, "Fabian
Russell" <fb@zen.info> wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 09:24:19 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>> 
>> But my point is about what *IS*, not what *COULD* be.
>> 
> 
> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
> 
> After a tiresome spiel about the possibility of various desktop groups
> working together to produce a better GUI, you then quickly wave off
> my assertion of software vendor incompetence with this ridiculous
> excuse.

Oh, BOTH are issues:

* The UI is not done well... not created as a system.
* Failure to entice developers.

We can point fingers all we want, but the reality is both of these are
significant issues and limit choice on Desktop Linux.

>> I noted that Linux could group to be this! It could lead to more
>> choice and flexibility.
> 
> I must remind you that Linux is a particular brand of the Unix operating
> system, and Unix was initially created to service computer scientists
> and other knowledgeable professionals.  The market for Unix is NOT
> a market of dummies.

One: it is Unix-like, not a UNIX. But whatever your excuse the fact is it
does not compete well.

> I do not perceive the faults with Linux which you imply, most probably
> because such faults do not exist.

I do not doubt you fail to see these things... but even if you did would you
admit it? In general though Desktop Linux users do not know much about UI
issues and fail to see how the failures on Linux impact their productivity,
efficiency, and error-reduction.

I would love to see you show some tasks you do... some relatively common
desktop tasks, though they need not be mundane. We can compare these with
how these same tasks are done on the competition... and hopefully find
examples where Linux shines.

If you are looking for some tasks you can take on some of the ones I (and
Owl in one case) suggested. His is not actually that common, but it was an
interesting exercise.... so I dove in and did it. It was fun for me. :)

* From a single online recipe (or art project, lesson plan, whatever) save
it and email a PDF version where you add notes to it. Now I know this can be
done on Linux; save, open, edit, email. Just curious to see how you people
would generally do it and how streamlined the workflow would be. A couple
ways I might: <https://youtu.be/NPM_WldEBs0>.

* Make a video, as Owl and I have been, but with cursor replacement /
resizing (post production), window highlighting, zooming, arbitrary area
highlighting. For me these were done just to show something else:
<https://youtu.be/aSNpnYpmKag>. I have many other options but picked these
because they fit the real-world example I did shortly before coming up with
the "challenge".

* Getting a WayBackArchive page and getting images of all links, the HTML
validation and CSS validation from W3.org, and a active link to the archive
page, as I did here (does not have to look the exact same, of course):
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/sandman/sandman-archive.pdf>.

* Download as PDFs all the recipes from the homepage of allrecipes.com (Owl
is the one who suggested this). I did several versions... here is one:
<https://youtu.be/_J4PppWroWY>. Mine not only worked, but the PDF had
selectable text and allowed me to do quick searches on ingredients and the
like... something Owl was never able to do on Linux. Worked so well that he
and Peter Köhlmann insisted it must have been faked.

> But your perspective is that of a person devoid of education and
> training into computer fundamentals.  You simply do not understand
> what is happening inside a computer and therefore you cannot effect
> any great productivity.  Therefore you require some tremendous layer
> of abstraction to assist you in what you merely believe is the correct
> approach.

This has literally NOTHING to do with my view. Actually, a well designed UI
helps an experienced person more than it helps a new user (though it helps
them as well).

> My view is that the purpose of GNU/Linux is NOT to provide such
> a useless layer, and my advice is to go elsewhere if you seek one.

Again: NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. I am speaking of ways to
improve productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction... for experienced
users and new.

>> And yet Desktop Linux is failing to attack any but a tiny sliver of users.
> 
> There are many commercial packages that have been ported to Linux,
> but such packages are almost always highly specialized software for
> sophisticated scientific and engineering applications.  That was,
> and remains, the traditional Unix market.
> 
> Junk applications, like word processors, spreadsheets, and
> image organizers tend to stay in the Microshit Windows world
> and that's exactly where they belong.

Ah, so you are not saying desktop Linux competes well with other desktop
solutions. OK. You think it works well elsewhere - which I agree with.

> The bottom line is this:
> 
> I know what I am doing, and I can make my GNU/Linux system beat
> the living fuck out of any commercial competitor in any realistic
> computing scenario -- and I don't mean transplanting heads from
> beautiful women to ugly bimbos using Photoshop.

Would love to see you show it. Keep in mind, as I prove above, I am happy to
do so. And I do so well. But maybe you can take on one or more of those
tasks and show how Linux handles them better. That would be GREAT!



-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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Thread

A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-22 23:02 -0700
  WPF? 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-04-23 07:58 +0000
  Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-04-23 12:33 +0200
    Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-23 08:07 -0700
  Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-23 13:05 +0000
  Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 07:50 -0700
    Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Richard King <kingsley651@webby.org> - 2016-04-23 10:52 -0400
      Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-04-23 16:53 +0200
        Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-23 08:08 -0700
        Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-04-23 08:14 -0700
          Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-24 08:10 -0700
        Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-04-25 07:57 -0500
          Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-25 10:14 -0700
            Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 10:53 -0700
            Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-04-25 22:28 +0200
              Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2016-04-26 07:31 -0500
                Re: Who needs a roomful of monkeys banging on a keyboard, when you have Snit? Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-04-26 07:09 -0700
  Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-24 15:10 +0000
    Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-24 09:24 -0700
      Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-24 20:37 +0000
        Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-24 14:00 -0700
          Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-24 23:01 +0000
            Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-04-24 23:10 +0000
              Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Lloyd Parsons <lloydp211@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 23:34 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-04-25 00:50 +0000
              Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-25 01:54 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2016-04-25 04:17 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-24 21:33 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-25 09:01 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-25 10:18 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-25 22:29 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-25 16:28 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-04-25 21:27 -0400
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-25 18:34 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-26 09:20 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-04-26 07:05 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-26 11:54 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-04-26 13:24 -0400
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-26 22:30 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-26 22:45 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-04-26 20:53 -0400
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-04-26 18:06 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-04-27 03:21 +0200
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-27 10:44 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-04-27 12:49 +0200
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-27 22:14 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-04-28 00:27 +0200
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-26 11:52 -0700
            Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-24 18:00 -0700
              Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-25 01:41 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-24 19:18 -0700
              Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-25 10:32 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-25 10:49 -0700
          Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-25 10:26 +0000
            Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-04-25 09:07 -0400
              Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Fabian Russell <fb@zen.info> - 2016-04-25 22:31 +0000
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2016-04-25 21:41 -0400
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-26 11:54 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-04-27 00:39 +0200
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-26 18:15 -0700
                Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-04-27 02:42 +0000
            Re: A short take on my view of Linux / OSS Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-04-25 10:21 -0700

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