Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP

From	Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Subject	Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
References	(5 earlier) <580b4d3a.724229665@news.eternal-september.org> <2016Oct22.154921@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <nujjrn$579$1@gioia.aioe.org> <2016Oct24.131526@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <nv0ps1$tte$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID	<CtednSmBCZrA-onFnZ2dnUU7-evNnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink)
Date	2016-10-29 04:09 -0500

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HAA <someone@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Anton Ertl wrote:
>> "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> writes:
>> >Anton Ertl wrote:
>> >> And at the last meeting we standardized "1 chars = 1".  So if the
>> >> address unit is a byte, /STRING works on bytes.
>> ...
>> >That option already existed under Forth-94.
>>
>> Yes, it was an option, and all popular systems implemented this
>> option, and many programs rely on it.  I.e., it is common practice,
>> and that's why we standardized it.
> 
> No.  It may be a fact that on most systems "1 chars = 1" but that doesn't
> give carte blanche to programmers to write 'standard programs' in a
> manner that disregards datatype.

It does now.  "CHARS" was almost always nonsensical anyway.

> ANS was explicit that certain functions should handle characters,
> while others cells, address units and so on.

Time moves on: an address unit is a byte, and a byte is large enough
to hold a primitive character.

> I don't write professionally so none of this affects me.  I don't
> even bother to document code for my own benefit.  I get away with it
> because chances are nobody will read my code and should anyone find
> it necessary, they will eventually work it out.  But that isn't what
> Forth Standards are about, is it.  A 'Standard Forth Program' is
> meant to be professional and readable as well as portable.  ANS went
> to pains to get Forth programmers to write code that is clear,
> consistent and informative.

Perhaps, but I don't believe that's relevant.  Forth has always been
about simplicity and economy.  Sprinkling no-op words like CHARS over
programs never went any way towards that goal.  I believe that words
which (in must cases) literally do nothing are antithetical to Forth.
Leave the syntactic sugar to languages whose users like that stuff.

Andrew.

Thread

1 /STRING vs SNIP foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-10-18 19:31 -0700
  Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-10-19 07:24 +0300
  Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-19 07:52 +0000
    Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-19 16:58 -0700
      Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-21 16:01 +1000
        Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-21 00:51 -0700
          Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-21 00:57 -0700
        Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-21 05:20 -0700
          Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-22 00:25 +1000
            Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-21 09:13 -0700
              Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-21 16:24 +0000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-21 20:06 +0200
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-21 14:19 -0700
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-22 13:46 +1000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-10-22 11:34 +0000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-22 13:49 +0000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-24 11:15 +1000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-24 03:01 +0200
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-24 13:29 +1000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-24 11:15 +0000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-24 19:44 -0700
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-29 11:17 +1000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-10-29 04:09 -0500
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-29 16:44 +0000
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-29 17:11 -0700
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-31 19:11 +1100
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-31 08:47 +0000
      Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-21 03:49 -0700
        Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-22 20:02 -0700
        Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-22 20:13 -0700
          Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-22 21:09 -0700
            Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-23 18:36 -0700
          Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-10-27 14:07 +0100
            Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-27 19:12 -0700
              Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-10-28 19:39 +0100
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-28 20:26 -0700
    Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-10-26 19:52 -0700
      Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-27 09:42 +0000
        Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-10-27 06:46 -0700
        Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-10-28 07:31 +0000
          Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-10-28 11:33 +0100
          Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP jasmijn Bonting <tessa.bonting@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 04:09 -0700
            Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-10-28 12:41 +0000
            Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-28 16:50 +0000
              Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 10:59 -0700
                Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-29 10:17 +0000
  Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-19 20:19 +1000
    Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-10-19 05:12 -0700
  1 /STRING vs SNIP trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-21 04:07 -0700
    Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-21 15:50 +0200
    Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-25 16:38 -0700
      Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2016-10-26 10:50 -0400
        Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2016-10-26 10:53 -0400
        Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-26 17:33 +0200
          Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2016-10-27 10:16 -0400
            Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-27 17:01 -0400
          Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-10-27 17:00 +0200
  Re: 1 /STRING vs SNIP Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2016-10-22 12:25 +0200

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