Re: debian installation issue

From	Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: debian installation issue
Date	2021-06-11 23:20 +0200
Message-ID	<CoWJj-6aA-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<CoSmm-3ul-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <CoSZ3-3Wg-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CoUet-4AT-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <CoUHw-4ZQ-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	less than infinite

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Greg Wooledge composed on 2021-06-11 15:07 (UTC-0400):

> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 09:38:37PM +0300, Semih Ozlem wrote:

>> How to check where grub is installed? And what is a friendly guide to
>> learning about grub?

> GRUB should be installed on the *disk* (not on a partition) that you
> intend to boot.										
Not to detract from the wisdom of the rest of Greg's excellent reply, but TBC,
this statement is religion at one extreme, opinion at the other, not fact. Note he
wisely did not say "must", but "should". For most traditional (BIOS/MBR; designed
for "Windows" PCs) configurations, it's probably prudent to put the bootloader on
the "disk". For pure Debian installations, as opposed to multiboot, whether or not
to install it on the "disk" really doesn't matter.

OTOH, putting a bootloader on the MBR of a disk on a PC designed for Windows is a
relative newcomer to the world of booting such a PC. I've been installing
operating systems on IBM-compatible PCs for more than 3 decades. Not once have I
intentionally installed Grub on an MBR. In the dearth of instances where it did
happen I wiped whatever caused it, and started over with
DOS/OS2/Windows/Linux-compatible MBR code on the MBR. IOW, Grub can live elsewhere
than on the MBR.

A less innocuous error is not clearly qualifying the quoted statement to apply
only to non-UEFI boot environments, which usually means an MBR-partitioned boot
disk. On a UEFI installation, which requires GPT partitioning, the first sector
normally contains nothing until near its end, where a disk identifier and the
start of the disk's multi-sector partition table begin. No executable code is
required on this sector.

With a UEFI "BIOS", the boot process begins rather differently than on an MBR-only
system. On a UEFI system's ESP (Extensible Firmware Interface System Partition; a
quasi-"boot" partition), there are no files containing the string "grub" in their
name. Thus it seems to be a debatable issue whether "bootloader" is actually an
appropriate name for Grub 2, as its primary purpose seems to be presenting a menu
from which to select what kernel, initrd (if any), and kernel command line
parameters (if any) to load into RAM to /continue/ the boot process initiated by
the UEFI firmware.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
	based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Thread

debian installation issue Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-06-11 18:40 +0200
  Re: debian installation issue Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-11 19:20 +0200
    Re: debian installation issue Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-06-11 20:40 +0200
      Re: debian installation issue Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-11 21:10 +0200
        Re: debian installation issue Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-11 23:20 +0200
          Re: debian installation issue David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 18:00 +0200
            Re: debian installation issue Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-24 06:30 +0200
              Re: debian installation issue David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-06-29 18:20 +0200
                Re: debian installation issue Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-29 19:30 +0200
                Re: debian installation issue David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-07-04 17:30 +0200
                Re: debian installation issue Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-07-05 05:40 +0200
        Re: debian installation issue Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-06-12 00:00 +0200
          Re: debian installation issue Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-06-12 00:10 +0200
        Re: debian installation issue Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-14 08:30 +0200
          Re: debian installation issue <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-14 09:50 +0200
            [Off topic thoughts] Re: debian installation issue "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-06-14 10:50 +0200
              Re: [Off topic thoughts] Re: debian installation issue <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-06-14 11:50 +0200
                Re: [Off topic thoughts] Re: debian installation issue Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-14 13:20 +0200
              Secure Boot in QEMU (was Re: debian installation issue) Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2021-06-14 12:10 +0200
                Re: Secure Boot in QEMU (was Re: debian installation issue) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-14 13:40 +0200
            Re: debian installation issue Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-06-21 15:00 +0200
              Re: debian installation issue tomas@tuxteam.de - 2021-06-21 16:40 +0200
              Re: debian installation issue Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2021-06-23 09:50 +0200
                Re: debian installation issue Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-23 14:30 +0200
      Re: debian installation issue Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-11 21:20 +0200
        Re: debian installation issue Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-12 00:30 +0200
          Re: debian installation issue Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-12 09:00 +0200
            Re: debian installation issue songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-06-12 13:50 +0200
              Re: debian installation issue "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-06-12 13:50 +0200
                Re: debian installation issue Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-12 14:20 +0200
                Re: debian installation issue songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-06-12 15:10 +0200
              Re: debian installation issue Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-12 14:10 +0200
            Re: debian installation issue Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-06-12 23:00 +0200
        Re: debian installation issue Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-06-12 17:30 +0200

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