Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)

From	The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye)
Date	2021-08-18 13:40 +0200
Message-ID	<CNs5j-2TP-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<CN5s6-49d-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <CN9P3-7mi-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <CNbe9-8h4-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On 2021-08-17 at 13:36, Brian wrote:

> On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:00:57 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

>> Do the update to Buster - take it as slow as you need to. Bring it
>> bang up to date.
>> 
>> For the Buster to Bullseye -
>> 
>> READ RELEASE NOTES :)
> 
> Of course! Do users not do this as a standard procedure? :)

I don't - because I don't upgrade from one stable release to another; I
track testing, continuously, throughout the development cycle. As such,
there is no point in the release cycle at which it makes sense for me to
read the release notes; at the start of the release cycle they don't
exist yet, so there's nothing for me to read, and by the time they're
finalized and the release is ready, I'm already fully upgraded.

It always bothers me to see "read the release notes!" hammered on as a
reasonable thing to expect users to do, in terms which presents users
who fail to do so as unreasonable. It probably does make sense in the
relatively limited (if also probably relatively common) case of
upgrading from (old)stable to stable, but it is certainly not so
universal a matter as to make failing to do it so inappropriate that
hammering on it in such absolute terms becomes appropriate.

IMO, "fixing" an upgrade-related issue by documenting it in the release
notes is not *and cannot be* enough; it has to be fixed in the relevant
package(s), whether by making it not happen or by documenting it (and/or
pointing to a place where documentation of that specific issue can be
found) in a place which will be seen at the time when the upgrade is
performed.

Also IMO, the cases in which it is reasonable to expect users to seek
out and read release notes before upgrading are quite limited; the
release notes are useful as reference documentation for potential issues
and for planning an upgrade if one wants to do that, but reading the
release notes is not an inherent part of the upgrade process, and any
design which assumes that it is or should be is IMO a broken design.

(That latter is true for any product, not just for Debian.)

At the very least, if you want to get people to read the release notes
before upgrading, you should arrange for the upgrade process to include
a prominent "have you read the release notes yet?" prompt (with an
option to cancel) before anything irrevocable is done. People could
still ignore that, but it would at least bring the idea of reading the
release notes into the actual upgrade procedure itself, rather than
being an out-of-band thing which people have to think of and go out of
their way to do manually before starting the upgrade.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

Thread

Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 13:30 +0200
  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-17 14:10 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 15:10 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 15:20 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-17 15:30 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 16:10 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 21:20 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-08-18 13:30 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 15:10 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 15:30 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-18 04:10 +0200
  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-17 18:10 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 19:40 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 19:50 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 19:50 +0200
      Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-08-18 13:40 +0200
        Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-18 14:30 +0200
          Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-08-18 15:10 +0200
            Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-19 14:30 +0200
              Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-08-20 11:30 +0200
              Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-20 13:00 +0200
                Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-20 13:50 +0200
                Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-20 15:40 +0200
                Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-21 02:40 +0200
          Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-19 14:50 +0200
        Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 18:30 +0200
          Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 23:20 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 23:00 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 23:00 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-17 23:50 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 03:40 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 02:10 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2021-08-18 03:40 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 00:10 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 00:50 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 01:30 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:40 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 03:00 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 05:30 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-18 09:00 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 13:10 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 03:50 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-18 04:10 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-18 09:10 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 10:20 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 14:10 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 19:30 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 09:50 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 10:40 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-20 20:20 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 12:40 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-19 18:00 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 12:40 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:30 +0200
  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-17 21:10 +0200

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