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Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :(

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On 11.08.21 08:46, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 01:09:29 -0400, Calum McConnell
> <calumlikesapplepie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 2021-08-11 at 00:51 +0000, Paul Wise wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 5:38 PM Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
>>>
>>>> "So, Arch Linux, one of the main reasons, there's a couple, but the
>>>> main
>>>> reason is the rolling updates of Arch allows us to have more rapid
>>>> development for SteamOS 3.0," says Yang. "We were making a bunch of
>>>> updates and changes to specifically make sure that things work well
>>>> for
>>>> Steam deck, and Arch just ended up being a better choice for them."
>>> Sounds like Debian testing would have worked for them too.
>> Except testing lacks direct security support, and spends about a quarter
>> of the time in a feature freeze.  It isn't a true rolling release: the
>> wheels are squares instead of circles.
> I think that the experience that Debian has made with Stream is our
> classic problem: We try to cater for all, and annoy the people who
> want quicker releases. After we have driven away the users who want
> quicker releases in the early 2000s (they have moved to Ubuntu or to
> the rolling release distributions), we have taken a quicker pace,
> driving away the users that want more stability (they have probably
> moved to the Red Hat / CentOS world despite them having actually less
> stability by defining stability and support time differently than we
> do), and still we're too slow for downstream users like Steam.
>
> This is either going to continue, or we finally commit to having more
> than one release train, which of course comes with its own set of
> issues, the biggest of them being volunteers and personpower.
>
> There is no glory in supporting long support cycles.

For steam, our competitor may be arch. For science projects, it is conda
(ok, hello, yes, you brew and guix people, you are also competitors) -
which rolling and (bonus feature) cross-platform - with CI and often it
is upstream preparing and using these packages themselves.

I have no exact idea what to change, though. A rolling Debian would be
cool, yes, but also a bit late when compared with environments that
Conda offers or the ease that comes with multiple installations of conda
to e.g. avoid name conflicts. If we had a chroot for which you do not
need to be root, then together with snapshot.d.o we would be darn close
to what Conda is offering. I have no idea how to get there, though. With
singularity maybe?

Best,
Steffen

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Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Samuel Henrique <samueloph@debian.org> - 2021-07-17 14:50 +0200
  Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-07-17 16:00 +0200
  Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2021-07-17 17:20 +0200
    Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2021-08-10 19:40 +0200
      Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-08-10 19:40 +0200
        Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-08-11 03:00 +0200
          Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Calum McConnell <calumlikesapplepie@gmail.com> - 2021-08-11 07:10 +0200
            Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2021-08-11 08:50 +0200
              Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Steffen Möller <steffen_moeller@gmx.de> - 2021-08-11 11:40 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2021-08-11 16:10 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu> - 2021-08-11 18:10 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2021-08-12 05:30 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-08-12 06:50 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2021-08-14 08:50 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Moritz Mühlenhoff <jmm@inutil.org> - 2021-08-14 09:20 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2021-08-16 16:30 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Romain Porte <debian@microjoe.org> - 2021-08-12 16:40 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2021-08-12 23:10 +0200
                Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2021-08-13 00:00 +0200
                git workflows (was: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad  news for Debian :() Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2021-08-13 00:40 +0200
                Re: git workflows (was: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad  news for Debian :() Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2021-08-14 09:00 +0200
                Re: git workflows (was: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad  news for Debian :() Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2021-08-15 07:10 +0200
  Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( "Thaddeus H. Black" <thb@debian.org> - 2021-07-18 02:20 +0200
  Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-07-18 03:00 +0200
    Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Hanno 'Rince' Wagner <wagner@debian.org> - 2021-07-18 10:40 +0200
      Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-07-19 04:30 +0200
        Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian :( Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2021-07-19 22:30 +0200
  Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian? Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2021-07-19 23:40 +0200
    Re: Steam Deck: good news for Linux gaming, bad news for Debian? Samuel Henrique <samueloph@debian.org> - 2021-07-20 00:30 +0200

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