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Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case.

From Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case.
Date 2014-05-07 12:40 -0700
Message-ID <CF8FDA36.36B16%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> (permalink)
References (13 earlier) <2zx3lda5drfu$.1bmussccgtmbg.dlg@40tude.net> <bstamjF5fkvU1@mid.individual.net> <CF8EC957.369C4%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <bsu870FauikU1@mid.individual.net> <slrnlml1mi.msk.jedi@nomad.mishnet>

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On 5/7/14, 12:17 PM, in article slrnlml1mi.msk.jedi@nomad.mishnet,
"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

...
>>>> It is the job of the patent office to reject such broad patent
>>>> applications. The problem is that the system doesn't work as intended
>>>> and so overly wide patents get through. All this does is weaken the
>>>> technology companies and make the lawyers richer. Hence, it is a
>>>> lose-lose scenario.
>>> 
>>> How would you fix it so companies such as Apple can protect their
>>> investments / innovations?
> 
> I wouldn't. That's not the point.

But the reason Apple uses patents is because those are the best tool to
protect their work, even if the tool is not a very good one. Without a
replacement tool for them to use, it makes no sense to get rid of the poor
one.

> Patents are a trade. Your trade secrets for a limited monopoly.

Others cannot copy what is secret. They protect what is made public, too.

> Such things should be employed as sparingly as possible as any monopoly is
> inherently harmful and destructive and undermines both the free market and
> democracy.

So what should be used to protect the investment in time, money, and energy
that Apple and others use to create innovative products? You say not patents
- fine... but what? I am not defending patents.

> That trade should be done with the understanding that these are things of
> actual value where the harm of granting a monopoly is greater than the harm of
> forcing everyone to re-invent a particular wheel.

Which is what Apple is asking for when they put a lot of resources into
greatly altering the many markets they have - only to have companies such as
Microsoft, Google, and Samsung use their ideas to make copycat products.

If these companies can just walk away with these ideas as soon as they are
released to the public, that removes incentive for Apple and others to push
the state of the art forward.

> If re-inventing a particular wheel is cheap, then that particular "secret"
> really has no value and does not warrant the granting of a monopoly.

What if re-inventing the wheel is expensive and time consuming and
challenging - but once it is re-invented, copying that idea is not that
hard?

How does one protect such work?

> The term "patent" really does gloss over the relevant bits of the situation
> here.

You keep saying patents are not a good tool to protect the types of
investment being discussed. OK, I can accept that. So what would a good tool
look like? 

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Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-03 09:40 -0400
  Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Lusotec <nomail@nomail.not> - 2014-05-03 15:01 +0100
    Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-03 10:07 -0400
      Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Lusotec <nomail@nomail.not> - 2014-05-03 15:53 +0100
        Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-03 11:47 -0400
          Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Lusotec <nomail@nomail.not> - 2014-05-04 00:25 +0100
            Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 01:34 +0200
            Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-03 16:40 -0700
              Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-03 21:06 -0700
            Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-03 19:47 -0400
              Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-03 16:56 -0700
              Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Lusotec <nomail@nomail.not> - 2014-05-07 14:19 +0100
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-07 09:35 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-07 08:18 -0700
            Judge orders troll to "get a clue" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-05-03 20:44 -0400
              I Think I Pissed Off Chris Ahlstrom. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-03 20:47 -0400
        Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-05-03 12:45 -0400
          Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-03 12:43 -0700
          Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-06 07:35 -0500
        Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2014-05-05 12:55 -0500
          Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-05 11:49 -0700
            Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-05 16:42 -0700
    Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-03 13:09 -0700
      Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-03 13:55 -0700
      Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-05-03 15:28 -0600
    Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Ian Hilliard <nospam@nospam.org> - 2014-05-04 17:17 +0200
      Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 08:27 -0700
        Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 09:09 -0700
        Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Ian Hilliard <nospam@nospam.org> - 2014-05-04 19:21 +0200
          Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 10:47 -0700
            Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Ian Hilliard <nospam@nospam.org> - 2014-05-04 20:10 +0200
              Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 11:37 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzin@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 11:52 -0700
              Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-05-04 15:14 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-04 15:19 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2014-05-04 21:43 +0200
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-04 15:45 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Tattoo Vampire <sitting@this.computer> - 2014-05-04 20:13 +0000
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-04 16:15 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 14:05 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-05-04 15:37 -0600
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-04 17:42 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-05-04 19:04 -0600
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Tattoo Vampire <sitting@this.computer> - 2014-05-05 01:12 +0000
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-05-04 16:05 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-04 16:07 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 13:15 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-05-04 15:36 -0600
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 14:54 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Lusotec <nomail@nomail.not> - 2014-05-04 23:26 +0100
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 15:42 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 17:23 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-05-04 20:17 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 17:22 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-05-04 19:02 -0600
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> - 2014-05-04 19:01 -0600
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 18:53 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 21:20 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 12:59 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Lusotec <nomail@nomail.not> - 2014-05-04 23:05 +0100
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 15:24 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Ian Hilliard <nospam@nospam.org> - 2014-05-05 16:13 +0200
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-05 08:46 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Ian Hilliard <nospam@nospam.org> - 2014-05-06 10:39 +0200
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-06 07:19 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-06 09:04 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-06 09:56 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Ian Hilliard <nospam@nospam.org> - 2014-05-07 01:48 +0200
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-06 17:16 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Ian Hilliard <nospam@nospam.org> - 2014-05-07 10:12 +0200
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 11:12 +0200
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-07 08:21 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2014-05-07 14:17 -0500
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-07 12:40 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 13:05 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-06 20:41 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-06 18:32 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Tattoo Vampire <sitting@this.computer> - 2014-05-07 11:22 +0000
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-05-07 09:08 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. 	flatfish+++ <phlatphish@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-07 09:16 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-07 08:16 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Silver Slimer <slvrslmr@lv.c> - 2014-05-07 12:29 -0400
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 10:17 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-07 08:31 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-07 08:31 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-07 12:56 -0700
                Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-06 08:52 -0700
      Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2014-05-04 13:14 -0400
        Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-04 10:51 -0700
          Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-04 13:29 -0700
  Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2014-05-03 09:03 -0700
  Re: Judge orders Samsung to pay Apple $119 Million in patent case. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2014-05-03 13:00 -0700

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