Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question]

From	Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question]
Date	2021-02-28 21:30 +0100
Message-ID	<BNARs-615-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <BMSQq-4Us-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <BMUfx-5DH-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <BNxJT-4aK-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <BNzLH-5p1-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <BNzVn-5sZ-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Sun 28 Feb 2021 at 14:27:24 -0500, Celejar wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 19:11:51 +0000
> Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun 28 Feb 2021 at 12:03:31 -0500, Celejar wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 22:49:58 +0000
> > > Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri 26 Feb 2021 at 16:28:56 -0500, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: 
> > > > > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 06:41:40PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > A 64-bit netinstall is prominent on the Debian main page. The
> > > > > > > problem with that image is that it is unlikely to suit many users
> > > > > > > with wireless-only connectivity. No obvious escape route is
> > > > > > > advertised. Yes, I know - if a site search is conducted, a better
> > > > > > > (non-free) image will be located. Jumping through hoops comes to
> > > > > > > mind!
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > No easy solution to that, sigh.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sure there is -- add a link directly underneath it saying "if
> > > > > you require wireless connectivity during the installation, you
> > > > > may need to use this [link: alternate installer]."
> > > > 
> > > > "if you require wireless connectivity during the installation, we
> > > > have a much better installer for you. [link: alternate installer]."
> > > > 
> > > > (Don't ask ask why the inferior installer is prominent :).)
> > > 
> > > Snark aside, what's wrong with something like this:
> > > 
> > > "Many wireless network cards (and even some wired ones) require
> > > non-free firmware to function properly. This firmware is not included
> > > in the standard installation images, due to Debian's free software
> > > ideals. If the network hardware your installation will rely upon
> > > requires such firmware, you may consider using the alternate non-free
> > > installation images available here."
> > 
> > Submitted as a bug against www.debian.org, it could fly. However,
> > the word "standard" seems superfluous. It implies the existemce of
> > non-standard (non-free?) installer images and these, of course,
> > would not be capable of distribution. Bear in mind there is only
> 
> I don't think I really understand your points - as per others posts in
> this thread, there are certainly things that are entirely "capable of
> distribution" but Debian still will not include in the standard
> installation (for reasons that I completely respect). This is exactly
> what the "unofficial" images are - they contain "proprietary but
> redistributable firmware," and Debian is willing to distribute them
> from project architecture, just not as a "standard" (my term) installer:
> 
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/

Presumabely, this space

  https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/

could contain as many packages as there are developers willing to
commit packages there, free or non-free. Or is it reserved only for
the specific images we are discussing? In the case of installer
images, could there be many official "non-official" offerings?

It is as well to note that non-free is not considered to be part of
Debian:

  https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html

Your patch to the main web page could be submitted. I acknowledge the
visibilty issue. Whether the suggestion is accepted or not might 
clarify things.

-- 
Brian.

Thread

Debian install Question "M.R.P. zensky" <wintermute24x7@icloud.com> - 2021-02-24 18:50 +0100
  Re: Debian install Question IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-02-24 19:00 +0100
    Re: Debian install Question Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-02-24 21:20 +0100
      Re: Debian install Question IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-02-24 23:40 +0100
        Re: Debian install Question Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-02-25 00:00 +0100
        Re: Debian install Question Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-25 00:40 +0100
          Re: Debian install Question Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-02-25 01:50 +0100
            Re: Debian install Question David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-25 06:00 +0100
              Re: Debian install Question Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-02-25 06:10 +0100
                Re: Debian install Question David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-26 01:30 +0100
        Re: Debian install Question David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-02-25 07:20 +0100
        Re: Debian install Question deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-02-25 08:30 +0100
          Re: Debian install Question "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-02-25 08:50 +0100
          Re: Debian install Question Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-02-25 10:50 +0100
        Re: Debian install Question <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-25 12:00 +0100
          Re: Debian install Question Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-26 13:10 +0100
            Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-26 14:00 +0100
              Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-02-26 19:50 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-26 21:20 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-02-26 22:10 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-26 22:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-02-27 00:00 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-27 09:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-02-28 18:10 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-02-28 20:20 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-02-28 20:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-02-28 21:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-01 10:40 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-01 14:00 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-01 15:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-01 20:20 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-01 14:20 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-02 21:00 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-02 22:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-03 00:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-03 04:10 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-03 16:40 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-03-04 11:20 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-04 18:50 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-04 21:50 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-03-05 02:00 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-04 21:50 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-05 18:00 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-05 20:40 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-06 02:50 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-06 04:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-04 18:50 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-03 21:10 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-03 16:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-03 21:20 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-03 22:50 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-04 00:20 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-04 04:30 +0100
                Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-02-28 16:40 +0100
        Re: Debian install Question Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-02-25 14:00 +0100
      Re: Debian install Question Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-02-25 17:40 +0100
        Re: Debian install Question Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-02-25 17:50 +0100
        Re: Debian install Question Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-26 13:20 +0100
          Re: Debian install Question Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-02-26 17:50 +0100
  Re: Debian install Question David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-02-24 19:20 +0100

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