Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks

Subject	Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks
Newsgroups	comp.arch.embedded
References	<r4g5sc$8jr$1@dont-email.me> <r4gdi2$tn$1@dont-email.me> <r58be8$nhk$1@dont-email.me> <_ITdG.1110033$Gh7.201179@fx45.iad> <r59qsb$ll2$1@dont-email.me>
From	Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID	<Ax1eG.523780$ls7.59106@fx40.iad> (permalink)
Organization	Forte - www.forteinc.com
Date	2020-03-23 08:00 -0400

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On 3/23/20 4:09 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 23/03/2020 01:50, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 3/22/20 2:42 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
>>>
>>> Small digression: ( out of ignorance of the M3 ) - There is nothing you
>>> have to do with an MMU or other caching furniture to guarantee
>>> serialization of access? So "volatile" is known to be sufficient?
>>>
>>> I'd be tempted to put a mutex on an measure the cost because race
>>> conditions are quite ... challenging to test for.
>>
>> The key point is that things are different for a
>> single-processor/single-master system, then when you have multiple
>> processors/bus masters. A single processor system that didn't keep
>> accesses in order at least to its own view would be seriously broken. At
>> worse there could be a few cycles of delay slots that the compiler would
>> keep track of that needed to be observed between a write and a read.
>>
>> The one catch with a single processor system is if it has something like
>> DMA, then the memory accessed by the DMA needs the protections like a
>> multiprocessor system.
>>
>> The volatile system was invented back at a time when for most machines,
>> it was sufficient for most types of access.
>>
> 
> It's also worth noting that even though "volatile" is not sufficient for
> bigger systems (multiple bus masters, like multiple cores or DMA), it is
> generally still /necessary/ along with the memory barriers, cache
> flushes, synchronisation instructions, locks, etc.
> 
> Sometimes with modern C or C++ you can use atomic types rather than
> volatile, since the atomic types are effectively volatile in themselves
> (as well as having other properties and synchronisation features).
> 
> And of course compiler-specific features can replace the need of
> volatile (such as using a gcc asm memory clobber).
> 

I will admit that it isn't my area of expertise, as most of my
programming is done on machines where volatile is sufficient for most of
the needs, but I remember arguments that for the big machines volatile
wasn't needed at all, as you needed a barrier that said every thing that
happened before this will be done before anything that happens after
this, and with such a barrier volatile isn't needed.

It may well be, and I think it is, that the Standards adopted weaker
barriers (that are perhaps significantly cheaper to perform) and with
those weaker barriers we still have a need for volatile.

The one key thing that I remember is that the compiler needs to
understand these barriers, as it needs to avoid moving accesses accross
them.

Thread

Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-13 15:38 +0100
  Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-13 17:49 +0100
    Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-18 09:09 +0100
      Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-18 09:17 +0100
      Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-03-18 17:37 +0100
        Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-18 19:23 +0100
    Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2020-03-22 13:42 -0500
      Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-22 21:45 +0100
      Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-03-22 20:50 -0400
        Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-23 09:09 +0100
          Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-03-23 08:00 -0400
            Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-23 14:21 +0100
              Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2020-03-25 09:55 +1100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-30 16:07 +0200
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2020-03-31 09:02 +1100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-31 10:57 +0200
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2020-04-01 12:05 +1100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-03-30 17:49 +0300
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2020-05-19 00:34 -0500
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2020-05-19 17:40 +1000
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-19 12:00 +0200
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2020-05-19 13:48 +0100
  Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-18 09:20 +0100
    Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-18 10:06 +0100
      Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-18 10:59 +0100
        Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-18 11:48 +0100
          Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-03-18 20:37 +0200
            Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-18 21:24 +0100
              Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-03-19 14:05 +0200
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-19 13:16 +0100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-03-19 14:27 +0200
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-19 14:13 +0100
            Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-19 08:03 +0100
              Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-19 09:10 +0100
              Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-03-19 12:51 +0200
          Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-19 07:40 +0100
            Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-19 09:38 +0100
              Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-19 11:26 +0100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-19 12:12 +0100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-19 15:31 +0100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-23 09:22 +0100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-03-23 08:10 -0400
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-23 13:47 +0100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-03-23 14:31 +0100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-03-23 13:50 -0400
            Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2020-03-19 12:27 +0200
              Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2020-03-19 11:45 +0100
                Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-03-19 13:27 +0200
    Re: Cortex-M: share an int between two tasks antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-03-18 16:24 +0000

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