Re: Debugger Recommendation

From	Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: Debugger Recommendation
Date	2011-09-14 08:42 +1200
Message-ID	<9d9tijF784U4@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<HKSdnd4G7YNrOcbTnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@giganews.com> <j4jddl$nvf$1@speranza.aioe.org> <slrnj6t03p.gtj.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid> <j4m2fd$fc4$1@speranza.aioe.org> <j4nlqs$ted$1@dont-email.me>

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On 09/14/11 01:29 AM, none Yannick Tremblay wrote:
> jacob navia<jacob@jspamsink.org>  wrote:
>>
>> THAT is what bothers me, that condescending tone (On Unix... etc)
>> as windows wouldn't have compilers, tools even better than valgrind,
>> and windows programmers do not know what unit tests are.
>
> You chose to read it as condescending and then chose to reply in an
> extremely rude and childish manner.  That's unfortunate.
>
> If we try to get the conversation back on track:
>
> I use debuggers.  I find them useful.  However, one thing that I
> strongly believe and that I have observed in some professional
> developpers is a far too great readiness to resort to the debugger as
> a first port of call.
>
> I believe the point that Jorgen was trying to make is that:
>
> - You should use compilers capabilities to help verify your code.
> - You should write unit tests and try to have high code coverage.
>    With good unit test, a lot less debugging is required.
> - You should use tools like valgrind on your unit test and on your
>    full program.  Valgrind will often detect errors in one short run
>    that will only be noticed after a "long time" in the field.

I agree with all of the above, with the slight difference that on my 
platform of choice (OpenSolaris derivatives), the functionality of 
valgrind in a component of the debugger (dbx).

In most of my work, tools that allow me to selectively observe a running 
system are more important that a debugger.  It's only when you use a 
tool like Solaris' dtrace 
(http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Community+Group+dtrace/) that you 
realise how useful they are.

In my new code, I work to the rule that if I have to use the debugger to 
find a bug, my unit tests aren't good enough...

As a tool for understanding someone else's code, the debugger is invaluable.

-- 
Ian Collins

Thread

Debugger Recommendation Joseph Hesse <joeh@gmail.com> - 2011-08-29 09:40 -0500
  Re: Debugger Recommendation Victor Bazarov <v.bazarov@comcast.invalid> - 2011-08-29 11:01 -0400
  Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-29 19:19 +0200
    Re: Debugger Recommendation "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-08-29 21:37 +0200
      Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-30 07:51 +1200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-29 22:52 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-30 08:56 +1200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-29 23:00 +0200
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-30 09:21 +1200
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-08-30 04:58 +0100
        Re: Debugger Recommendation "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-08-31 21:45 +0200
          [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-10 02:17 -0500
            Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 10:00 +0200
              Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 21:14 +1200
                Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-10 11:26 +0200
                Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 21:33 +1200
              Re: [OT] Re: Debugger Recommendation Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-10 06:32 -0500
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 06:59 -0700
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-10 09:39 -0500
      Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-29 22:51 +0200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-08-31 21:11 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-31 22:17 +0200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-09-01 07:26 +0200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation dan <dan.campbell+nospam@gmail.com> - 2011-09-09 21:30 -0500
    Re: Debugger Recommendation DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 08:57 +0200
      Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-22 09:16 +0200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 19:46 +1200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation DeMarcus <use_my_alias_here@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-22 11:15 +0200
  Re: Debugger Recommendation Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-29 22:02 -0700
    Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-08-30 11:09 +0200
      Re: Debugger Recommendation Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 05:26 -0700
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Oliver Jackson <chexmofo@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-30 08:25 -0700
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Paul <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-08-30 10:34 -0700
  Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-11 20:37 +0000
    Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-12 00:40 +0200
      Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-12 21:58 +0000
        Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-13 00:52 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-13 06:40 +0000
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:26 +1200
              Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 00:57 +0200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 11:13 +1200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2011-09-14 18:16 -0500
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 11:36 +1200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-15 06:35 +0000
                Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 09:29 +0200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-15 07:46 +0000
                Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 09:58 +0200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-15 09:57 +0000
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 19:30 +0900
                Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 14:28 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-13 13:29 +0000
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-14 08:42 +1200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:37 +0100
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 19:36 +0900
              Re: Debugger Recommendation yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-19 09:42 +0000
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-19 10:59 +0000
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-13 20:09 +0000
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:11 +0100
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-16 21:29 +0000
    Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:08 +0100
      Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 21:23 +1200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 11:38 +0200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 21:41 +1200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 10:43 +0100
      Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 11:34 +0200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 21:54 +1200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 11:44 +0100
          Re: Debugger Recommendation jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-09-15 18:56 +0200
            Re: Debugger Recommendation yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-19 09:53 +0000
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-19 22:34 +1200
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-19 11:13 +0000
                Re: Debugger Recommendation yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-22 11:41 +0000
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-23 07:45 +1200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-16 21:24 +0000
      Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 18:55 +0900
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 22:03 +1200
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 19:29 +0900
            Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 23:13 +1200
              Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 20:15 +0900
                Re: Debugger Recommendation Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-15 23:22 +1200
        Re: Debugger Recommendation Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 11:52 +0100
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-15 20:13 +0900
          Re: Debugger Recommendation Marc <marc.glisse@gmail.com> - 2011-09-15 14:19 +0000

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