Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ?

From	Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ?
Date	2011-09-09 19:01 +1200
Message-ID	<9ctru0Fn7mU3@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(11 earlier) <j45av3$5vp$1@news.albasani.net> <334d2599-e6f4-4037-937b-e918bdccff70@y4g2000vbx.googlegroups.com> <j4bir0$5nn$1@news.albasani.net> <9ct1v3Fn7mU2@mid.individual.net> <j4c5a0$lpo$1@news.albasani.net>

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On 09/ 9/11 04:39 PM, BGB wrote:
> On 9/8/2011 4:38 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 09/ 9/11 11:24 AM, BGB wrote:
>>>
>>> copy/paste may well be justified in some cases, such as to avoid
>>> creating a physical dependency between unrelated components, whereas
>>> traditional code-reuse creates dependencies by extension.
>>
>> What? By that logic, all libraries should be removed and their source
>> code copied instead. Lunacy.
>>
>
> it is a tradeoff:
> going this route (entirely) would tend to make many projects overly large.

It also makes them exceedingly difficult to maintain.

>> If you are that paranoid about dependencies, put each function in a
>> header and include that...
>
> but one still depends on the header, and depending on a header isn't
> necessarily all that much better (however, I have done similar for a few
> things, as the compiler tends to omit any static functions which are
> never called, ...).
>
> a partial advantage of headers is that they themselves can be more
> readily copy-pasted and need not create additional dependencies, however
> a partial disadvantage is that headers like this can potentially cause
> horrible compile-time performance and a lot of unnecessary bloat, so it
> is a tradeoff (it is bad enough when one already ends up with several MB
> of included code just including many basic OS headers).

Bollocks.  If the code has to change, in my world the header changes and 
N source files that use it rebuild.  In yours, you edit all N places you 
copied and pasted and N source files rebuild.  I do 1/N times as much 
work and the compiler does the same in both cases.

Now as for bloat, please explain how N function calls cause more bloat 
than N copy and pastes.

> but, typically, one will copy/paste code, and use find/replace or sed to
> re-scope it (replacing library/component prefixes or similar), and then
> edit the code into the desired form for its use in a given component.

Boy you sure like making work for your self, don't you?

> but, otherwise, one ends up with lots of centralized code that ends up
> being depended on by lots of potentially unrelated things.

Just like the standard library!

> however, code may be centralized if it makes sense, say if there is
> already a conceptually and mutually depended-on component, one may
> consider migrating shared code to this location, provided it can be
> sufficiently decoupled from its respective use-cases (does not have any
> dependencies on the code which uses it, ...).

That's called a function template...

> for example, memory management can be largely centralized (because most
> code does roughly the same sorts of things with a memory manager).
> likewise for things like filesystem interfacing, ...
>
> things like parser logic are typically copy-pasted all over and
> specialized for each use case, since it is far more difficult to
> separate a parser from its use-cases (a parser for XML, one for C, and
> one for ASM, and another for id/Valve/... style map files, ..., are each
> sufficiently different to make having common code problematic, but are
> sufficiently similar that it would be pointless to write the code
> entirely from-scratch each time).

Those documents are all structured differently, so forcing the same 
parser logic on each would be folly.

-- 
Ian Collins

Thread

Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 01:41 -0700
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C   10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-01 21:15 +1200
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? "Fred Zwarts \(KVI\)" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2011-09-01 11:48 +0200
    Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 15:34 -0700
      Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 19:09 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by   C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 14:39 +1200
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Krice <paulkp@mbnet.fi> - 2011-09-01 22:33 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-02 01:12 -0500
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:25 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-04 01:34 -0500
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 02:33 -0700
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-04 11:00 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 23:23 -0700
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 03:00 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 09:39 -0700
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 12:44 +0100
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-02 09:59 +0100
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-02 11:25 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-03 05:51 +0000
          Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 01:45 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 20:53 +1200
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 10:49 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 08:15 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 17:50 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-03 16:28 +0000
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 10:42 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? "Bo Persson" <bop@gmb.dk> - 2011-09-04 11:34 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 09:04 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-04 18:04 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Keith H Duggar <duggar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-09-04 18:44 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-04 23:26 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-05 08:01 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-05 11:45 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-06 06:30 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 07:22 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-06 16:25 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 07:14 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-07 12:28 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 16:49 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 18:45 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-08 15:56 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:32 -0700
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-03 19:16 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-05 00:28 -0700
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-05 12:34 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 07:51 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-05 14:06 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 00:32 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 07:33 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 02:52 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-08 16:24 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 11:38 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written   by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-08 21:39 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 19:01 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 02:45 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 03:23 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written     by C 10% ? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-09-14 23:12 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 02:40 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 11:19 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-09 15:42 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 14:24 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-09 18:22 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 10:11 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-10 10:54 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 14:28 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-11 12:29 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-11 00:45 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 00:39 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-12 18:06 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-12 16:46 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-13 10:20 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-09-13 13:16 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-11 04:53 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-11 14:51 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-10 07:46 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 03:10 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by   C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 22:50 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 04:48 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-07 09:45 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by   C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 21:51 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 00:15 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-08 12:14 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? KaiWen <wenkai1987@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 07:14 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-06 13:52 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 11:47 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 11:50 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-06 21:04 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 20:37 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 15:10 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 21:14 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-07 00:40 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-09-06 23:59 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Noah Roberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-06 16:26 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 14:55 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-07 00:51 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2011-09-06 23:29 -0500
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-07 09:06 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by   C 10% ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-07 19:09 +1200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-07 13:19 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2011-09-07 13:01 +0000
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-07 14:26 +0100
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Asger-P <junk@asger-p.dk> - 2011-09-07 15:49 +0200
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-08 22:49 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> - 2011-09-09 15:25 +0900
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 02:50 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 03:26 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-09 03:25 -0700
                Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 00:24 -0700
            Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? yatremblay@bel1lin202.(none) (Yannick Tremblay) - 2011-09-06 13:57 +0000
              Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-09-06 08:18 -0700
        Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-09-03 08:34 +0100
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? "A" <a@a.a> - 2011-09-01 11:50 +0200
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-09-01 10:53 +0100
  Re: Generally, are the programs written by C++ slower than written by C 10% ? James Kanze <james.kanze@gmail.com> - 2011-09-03 15:11 -0700

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