Re: Pointers, constant values

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Pointers, constant values
Date	2015-10-16 22:50 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87vba6pjow.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <mvrjar$2ji$1@dont-email.me> <87io66r30y.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <mvrm33$d10$1@dont-email.me> <871tcur0gn.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <mvrpkd$qec$1@dont-email.me>

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Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 16/10/2015 22:02, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>
>>> Why not? If you want to access the array from inside the function, my
>>> point is it makes more sense, type-wise, to pass a pointer to the
>>> array, rather than a pointer to an int.
>>
>> I don't want to argue about what "not much point" is.  Maybe you see
>> enough point that it exceeds your threshold for "not much".  That's
>> fine.  If so, I offer the C99 option as slightly more useful.
>
> The 'point' is that in what seems to be 99% of C code, the wrong type
> is being passed.

Surely that depends on what type you want to pass.  When doing most
array operations I don't "want" (in the language-agnostic sense) to pass
a pointer to anything at all.  I want to pass the array so that it can
be accessed simply and efficiently.  Both the usual C way (pass an
pointer to the start) and the less usual way (pass a pointer to the
whole array) are wrong in that sense of that word.

But given C's restrictions, even passing a pointer to the array is the
wrong type since you can't tell if this is a real pointer to an array or
a pointer to an array or these arrays.  In effect, you just move the
problem up a level.

> Arrays are turned into pointers to one element which are then turned
> back to arrays

No.  There is an implicit array to pointer conversion, but no implicit
pointer to array conversion.  Suggesting that there is (by using your
symmetrical phrasing) is just polemic.

> by means of applying offsets to them and treating them as arrays. C
> allows this, it's convenient, and everyone turns a blind eye.

I don't turn a blind eye.  I know exactly what's going on.  And since
passing a pointer to the array is usually as "wrong" (to borrow your
phrase) as passing a pointer to the start of it, there is no reason not
to use the convenient alternative.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

Thread

Pointers, constant values Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 00:49 -0700
  Re: Pointers, constant values Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-10-16 01:49 -0700
  Re: Pointers, constant values James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-16 09:41 -0400
    Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 08:55 -0700
  Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 08:25 -0700
    Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 09:11 -0700
      Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 12:06 -0700
        Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 12:55 -0700
    Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-16 17:49 +0100
      Re: Pointers, constant values Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-10-16 13:23 -0400
        Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-16 19:34 +0100
          Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 12:05 -0700
        Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 12:18 -0700
      Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 12:13 -0700
        Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-16 20:33 +0100
          Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 13:01 -0700
            Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-16 21:09 +0100
              Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 13:41 -0700
          Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-16 21:07 +0100
            Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-16 21:20 +0100
              Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-16 22:02 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-16 22:21 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 14:39 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 15:26 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 15:44 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 16:58 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 17:28 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-16 22:50 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 15:14 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-17 01:23 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-17 19:39 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-17 22:42 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 00:31 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 02:11 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 11:59 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 12:12 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 12:28 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 23:16 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 23:34 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-19 01:45 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-19 11:51 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-19 12:55 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-19 13:51 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-19 06:02 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-19 07:02 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-19 15:39 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-19 08:54 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-19 09:14 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-19 10:21 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-19 12:57 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-19 21:20 +0000
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-20 20:50 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-21 04:58 +0000
                Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-19 08:40 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-19 20:17 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-17 16:44 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 11:52 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-18 05:15 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 21:54 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-18 16:09 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-18 07:55 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 21:47 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-18 15:37 -0700
                Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-19 00:10 +0100
                Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-18 19:04 -0700
        Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-16 21:13 +0100
      Re: Pointers, constant values Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 11:27 +1300
        Re: Pointers, constant values Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-17 00:56 +0100
  Re: Pointers, constant values Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-10-16 12:37 -0500
    Re: Pointers, constant values James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-16 14:22 -0400
  Re: Pointers, constant values Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-16 18:57 +0000
    Re: Pointers, constant values Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-16 20:40 +0100
      Re: Pointers, constant values Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-16 20:46 +0000
        Re: Pointers, constant values Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-16 14:24 -0700
          Re: Pointers, constant values Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-19 12:43 +0000
  Re: Pointers, constant values Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-16 13:20 -0700
    Re: Pointers, constant values supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-17 13:59 -0700

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