Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive"

From	Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.theory
Subject	Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive"
Date	2022-05-02 15:46 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87v8uornzw.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
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olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> writes:

> On 5/2/2022 4:53 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:

>> Because PO has so explictly said that P(P) and "the input to H(P,P)" is not
>> the same thing, and H(P,P) correctly returns "non-halting".
>> Ben has tried to pin him down on what needs to be passed to H() to tell if
>> P(P) halts or not, but to no avail. 
>
> I have answered this many hundreds of times and every single time all
> of my words are totally ignored. This is ridiculously stupid.

Not once have you answered this key question.  You have avoided it,
posted silly analogies, been sarcastic and employed many other way to
dodge it but you have never addressed it honestly.  Why?  Because you
can't.  You can't say there is no pair of pointers that can be passed to
H so that H will tell us about the halting of P(P), because H should be
able to tell us that.  You can say the pair of pointer is P and P
because you told us that P(P) halts but H(P,P)==false.  All you can do
is say something that sounds vaguely related to keep people talking to
you (which is, after all, the only real goal you have).

> When P(P) is executed its execution trace proves that it reaches its
> own final state and halts.

But H can not tell us that, can it?  There is not pair of pointers that
can be passed to H so that H will tell us that P(P) halts.

> When the input to H(P,P) is correctly simulated its execution trace
> proves that it NEVER reaches its own final state and NEVER halts.

An irrelevant fact (if it is indeed a fact).  Both P(P) and a simulation
of P(P) halt.  H, if it were to meet the spec, would be able to tell us
that.  It can't.

-- 
Ben.
"le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas"
Alexandre Dumas (fils)

Thread

on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-01 13:37 +0100
  Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-01 15:39 +0100
    Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" polcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-01 11:05 -0500
      Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 13:14 -0400
      Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-02 00:50 +0100
    Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-01 17:17 +0100
      Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-02 00:44 +0100
        Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-02 01:26 +0100
          Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-01 18:29 -0600
            Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-02 01:31 +0100
          Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-02 01:49 +0100
  Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 13:08 -0400
    Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-01 12:23 -0500
      Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 14:04 -0400
    Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-01 11:30 -0600
      Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 14:10 -0400
      Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-01 13:33 -0500
        Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-01 12:43 -0600
          Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-01 14:05 -0500
            Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-01 13:19 -0600
              Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-01 14:24 -0500
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-01 13:35 -0600
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-01 14:43 -0500
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2022-05-01 13:45 -0600
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-01 14:56 -0500
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 15:49 -0400
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 15:43 -0400
            Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-05-01 12:21 -0700
              Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-01 14:27 -0500
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 15:52 -0400
              Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-05-01 14:10 -0700
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-05-02 02:53 -0700
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-02 08:31 -0500
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-02 15:46 +0100
                Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-02 18:43 -0400
            Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 15:27 -0400
        Re: on "infinitely recursive" and "recursive" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-01 15:13 -0400

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