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Groups > comp.lang.c > #60320

Re: SAFEcode

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: SAFEcode
Date 2015-04-18 15:18 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87sibxbjvl.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <58fa4013-d529-4a33-9efb-84e73bf90169@googlegroups.com> <87bnin93sm.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <514d1b8f-b51e-407c-bba7-3da7f9dc8e5e@googlegroups.com> <874moecya9.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <d97a4777-f4a9-41fa-8ffc-81e659db1e9b@googlegroups.com>

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Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:

> On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 9:09:33 PM UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>> 
>> Why would anyone spend time doing this work, especially with the rather
>> artificial cost model you've proposed?
>> 
>> In practice, it's a non-problem for most people.  They use some fixed
>> multiplier (so as to avoid the O(N^2) cost from a linear policy) and
>> they are done.  I doubt anyone uses a multiplier much larger than 3 or
>> one much smaller than 1.5, but I also doubt anyone chooses it based on
>> much study of the distribution of inputs.  I'd consider setting a
>> minimum start size based on such a study, but that's about it.
>>
> So most people say "the optimal answer is to grow the buffer by a
> factor of between 1.5 and 3". Fair enough. Doesn't that observation
> interest you?

No.  I'd be interested if someone really thought it was optimal (in some
technical sense), but the situation is too vague for that to be the
case.  Do you find it interesting?

> You've got two costs, the cost of making a call / doing a probe,
> and the cost of taking a chunk. I've unified them, not in a very
> artificial way.

It's not very artificial, just rather artificial.  more to the point,
it's your invented measure and I see no particular interest in it (I may
be wrong of course) but the context was that you suggested I do a
non-trivial body of work based on it.  I don't see any reason to do
that.  If you like the measure, you do the work.

> The problem's not contrived, either, lots of people knock up such
> code to cope with more or less that situation.
>>
>>   "So, clearly, our best strategy is to get a statistical distribution
>>   of the messages coming in, and then work out some sort of formula that
>>   minimises the number of calls".
>> 
>> That's hard to asses as right or wrong because of the vagueness of "some
>> sort of formula".  Given the cost model you've proposed, it's certainly
>> not obvious that fewer calls corresponds to lower costs, though it will
>> do for some formulas and some distributions of inputs.
>> 
> If you know the statistical distribution of the messages coming in,
> then you can optimise the strategy to cope with that distribution.
> To take a trivial example, if you know that every message is 
> exactly 1K, you've got an optimal strategy there and then.
>
> But all you know is that the messages are English language text composed 
> by a human. No one has actually sent you any messages yet, you don't
> really know what to expect, other than some very vague ballparks.
>
> So really the question boils down to, what's the statistical distribution
> of statistical distributions? But we don't need to go there yet.

Do you have anything substantive to say?  Can you justify the only
substantive thing you've said so far, which is that a formula that
minimises the number of calls is clearly optimal?  Obviously it is in
some trivial cases, but your remark was a general one, and I think it's
probably false in general.

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

SAFEcode G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2015-04-13 21:19 -0700
  Re: SAFEcode Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-14 17:12 +1200
    Re: SAFEcode Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-14 17:19 +1200
  Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-14 00:24 -0500
    Re: SAFEcode G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2015-04-13 23:45 -0700
  SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-13 22:30 -0700
  Re: SAFEcode Robbie Hatley <see.my.sig@for.my.address> - 2015-04-14 00:14 -0700
    Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 10:33 +0200
      Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 02:01 -0700
        Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-14 10:23 +0100
        Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 11:49 +0200
          Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 04:31 -0700
            Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 14:54 +0200
              Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 06:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 16:10 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:11 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 23:58 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 01:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 11:11 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 02:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 13:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 06:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 08:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 08:57 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 18:24 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 09:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 19:09 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 22:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 08:23 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 10:44 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 11:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 15:33 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 04:38 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-16 14:12 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 09:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 09:33 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 02:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 09:43 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 08:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 17:08 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-17 08:07 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 12:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 22:56 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 10:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 04:46 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 13:08 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 08:42 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-16 16:47 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 16:53 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 10:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-16 22:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:22 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 02:17 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-17 05:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 04:37 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 10:04 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 08:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-17 20:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 13:16 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 04:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 14:08 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 06:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 21:42 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 17:47 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 00:11 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 12:52 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-19 09:10 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 07:21 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-19 12:54 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 11:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 09:58 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 08:09 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 13:06 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-19 07:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 09:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 16:30 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 12:58 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 05:37 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 08:00 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 19:28 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-18 09:37 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 11:37 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-19 09:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 15:49 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 18:13 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-28 12:46 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-20 16:50 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-17 10:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-17 21:09 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 19:01 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 15:18 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 09:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 21:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 00:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-19 00:40 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 03:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-21 09:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 12:58 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 07:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 15:51 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-19 23:22 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 16:26 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 00:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 09:15 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 00:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 10:33 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 01:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 11:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 02:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 12:35 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 03:58 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 13:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 15:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 16:23 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 07:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 22:42 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 21:56 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 09:21 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 01:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 10:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 01:59 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 12:21 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 03:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 10:05 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 12:14 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 08:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 08:51 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 09:44 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 01:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 03:45 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 02:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 04:29 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 03:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 10:30 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 09:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 13:03 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 11:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 15:25 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 21:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 16:17 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 22:33 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 16:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 09:24 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 02:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-23 08:24 -0400
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 06:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 14:47 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 07:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 17:20 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 08:44 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:14 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-25 04:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 12:22 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-25 10:53 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 16:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-24 12:49 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 20:40 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 13:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 23:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 01:07 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 11:51 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 04:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-24 13:20 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 06:48 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:16 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-24 15:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 10:05 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 22:59 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-26 00:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 04:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 22:59 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-23 08:17 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 16:49 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 17:01 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 17:51 -0400
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 17:35 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 17:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 09:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-23 08:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 08:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 21:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 06:23 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:08 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 20:17 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 12:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-23 11:52 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-23 13:53 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:18 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-25 21:37 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-20 12:05 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 04:28 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 04:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 12:40 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 14:11 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 16:31 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode jadill33@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 09:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 22:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 11:10 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-20 22:43 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 22:59 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 09:27 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 15:12 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 07:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 16:43 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 08:01 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-21 22:29 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 11:09 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 10:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 10:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 16:51 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 02:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 14:44 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 16:58 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 01:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 17:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:09 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 10:50 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 11:12 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 11:37 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 05:54 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 15:31 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 06:48 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 16:29 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:13 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 08:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:25 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 10:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:24 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 01:18 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-23 06:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 09:36 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 08:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 13:04 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 09:52 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:23 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 10:28 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 08:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:53 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 12:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 16:44 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 22:58 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 09:53 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 10:15 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 13:57 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 23:01 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 23:46 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 01:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 08:32 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 10:02 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 12:06 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 20:18 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 12:30 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 21:30 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 13:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 20:21 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:24 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 09:46 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 02:57 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 08:42 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 16:19 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 09:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 08:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 11:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 11:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-17 09:51 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:28 +0300
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:32 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-14 15:24 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-14 18:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 12:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-14 21:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 13:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-14 21:39 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-15 01:20 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-15 01:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 01:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 08:17 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 09:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 18:33 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 10:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 20:55 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-15 19:27 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:53 +0300
                Re: SAFEcode Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:51 +1200
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-17 02:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 08:14 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-14 21:02 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 08:33 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:54 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 11:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 12:41 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 13:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 14:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 15:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 10:03 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 10:02 +0200
        Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:13 +0300
    Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-14 13:03 +0100

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