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Groups > comp.lang.c > #68730

Re: should c be a subset of c++?

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: should c be a subset of c++?
Date 2015-08-31 00:04 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87si70v0ms.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <qnc6ual7sp760qqk5jtbt8a9ckg079idhs@4ax.com> <procedure-20150830181326@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <bif6uat795ouvpqc1hpsbbf43p9mgs230v@4ax.com> <87oahownyd.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <t5o6uap0aao9qphlf4ddv4u1k75lhh73is@4ax.com>

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Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 20:55:38 +0100, Ben Bacarisse
> <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 30 Aug 2015 17:14:48 GMT, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>>Algorithms are essentially procedural so the best method for coding
>>>>>such algorithms is in a procedural language.
>>>>
>>>>  When you are growing up in a world where algorithms are
>>>>  given as procedures with mutable states, you can come to
>>>>  believe this. But the GCD, which normaly is given using a
>>>>  mutable state, can be given as a stateless function as well.
>>>>
>>>>( define( gcd a b )( if( = b 0 )a( gcd b( remainder a b ))))
>>>>
>>>
>>> Algorithm:
>>> "A finite set of unambiguous instructions performed in a prescribed
>>> sequence to achieve a goal, especially a mathematical rule or
>>> procedure used to compute a desired result. Algorithms are the basis
>>> for most computer programming."
>>>
>>> While a function might be expressed statelessly, nevertheless, it must
>>> be translated into a sequence of computer instructions by the compiler
>>> which will statefully and algorithmically translate the function
>>> definition into machine-executable code. The implementation of the
>>> function will be, and must necessarily be, stateful.
>>
>>Is it your contention that the gcd above is therefore not an algorithm
>>but that an algorithm emerges from it when some compiler has does its
>>work or when some other procedural interpretation has been put on the
>>symbols?  (I don't want to rehash the whole argument again, I just want
>>to know what your position is.)
>
> To be consistent I would have to state the algorithm arises from the
> process of creating the instructions. Given the symbols of the
> function defined above are a true representation of the process of
> calculating a GCD. 
>
> A human or machine, tasked with following the instructions implied by
> the syntax of the algorithm, knowing the syntax and grammar of the
> language of the statement in question, will enter into a stateful
> process of evaluating a, b and performing a calculation of b(remainder
> a b) and the act of performing those calculations affects the state of
> the "machine" performing the operation.

That seems to me to need too much.  I agree with a key part of what you
are saying -- that any notation must be associated with a "meaning" but
it does not have to be one that is state-based in the usual sense of the
word.  For example, the reduction of lambda forms gives meaning to
notations like the one above without inducing what more people would
call a state-based sequence of calculations.

But there's a terminology issue here too.  If you think of the sequence
of reduction as "states" then you are, of course, correct, but then you
have to say that 1+2 is a "stateful" algorithm.

> Or is it your assertion that a parser of the above function statement
> is not stateful?

I'd like to avoid that term altogether.  A string written in some notion
together with some rules that give the notation meaning constitute an
algorithm.  The rules are usually implicit, so a while-loop to calculate
GCD has implied rules just as the notation above does.  Both, to my
mind, represent algorithms.

The key things is that many of the questions we ask about algorithms
have questions that only make sense in terms of these implicit rules.
For example, we might want to know if the algorithm is linear in n.  The
answer will be in terms of the number of reductions, or of loop
iterations, or of mod operations or some such.

-- 
Ben.

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should c be a subset of c++? G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 14:14 -0700
  Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 14:43 -0700
    Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-25 15:26 -0700
      Re: should c be a subset of c++? Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-30 09:51 -0700
        Re: should c be a subset of c++? Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-30 10:46 -0700
          Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-30 20:55 +0100
            Re: should c be a subset of c++? Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-30 13:14 -0700
              Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-31 00:04 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-31 03:01 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-31 12:11 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-31 06:31 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-08-31 10:24 -0400
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-31 18:04 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-31 11:28 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 00:31 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-31 17:19 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-08-31 22:18 -0400
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 13:32 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 05:37 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 16:51 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 09:45 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 20:04 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 12:15 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 20:33 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 12:41 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 21:02 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 13:14 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-02 00:42 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 17:24 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-01 13:34 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-02 19:07 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-02 19:13 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 10:25 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-04 09:58 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-04 10:06 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-01 06:44 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-01 14:49 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 07:21 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 07:22 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-01 07:33 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-01 08:32 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 08:49 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-01 22:58 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-01 22:07 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-02 13:12 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 16:48 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-01 09:15 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 20:00 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-01 12:57 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 23:57 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-01 22:57 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-01 22:04 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-02 13:29 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 12:37 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-04 04:13 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-03 23:59 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-04 10:13 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-04 01:23 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-04 09:52 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-04 02:03 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-04 10:20 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-04 11:33 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-04 03:13 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-04 12:53 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-09-04 16:31 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-04 11:43 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-04 15:07 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-06 13:36 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 13:57 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-08 10:36 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 06:02 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-04 16:53 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 09:59 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-04 21:13 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-09-04 22:20 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 13:45 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-04 22:21 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 14:53 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-05 00:48 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 20:02 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-05 13:10 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 05:31 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-05 15:46 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 22:19 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-06 14:34 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 07:14 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-06 17:39 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-09-06 12:05 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 12:13 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-05 06:05 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 06:11 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-09-05 10:10 -0400
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-05 08:51 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-09-05 16:30 -0400
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-05 13:52 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-09-05 21:17 -0400
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-06 05:47 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-06 00:02 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-06 08:20 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-06 02:23 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-05 16:34 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-05 16:17 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-05 16:31 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-09-05 19:06 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-05 21:12 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 22:23 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-06 14:30 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 07:23 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-06 17:15 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 09:21 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 09:34 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-06 21:42 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-06 17:01 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-09-06 13:46 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 12:01 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-09-06 14:22 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 12:29 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 12:36 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-06 22:20 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 13:49 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-06 23:13 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 14:23 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-07 11:55 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-07 04:00 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-07 12:44 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-09-06 22:32 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 14:36 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-07 00:08 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-06 23:33 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-09-07 12:18 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-06 21:51 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-06 21:14 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 13:23 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-06 22:40 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 14:05 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-07 00:11 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 16:43 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-07 01:10 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 17:23 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-07 01:36 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 17:54 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-07 11:03 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-07 15:17 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 07:49 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-07 22:43 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-06 18:22 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-07 11:00 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-07 15:10 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-07 07:42 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-09-07 10:26 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2015-09-07 16:10 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-07 22:39 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-07 15:16 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-07 17:17 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-07 08:27 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-07 21:13 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-06 16:49 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-07 10:54 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-07 02:26 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-07 12:26 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-06 23:37 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-07 00:57 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-06 16:57 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-09-06 09:26 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-06 20:41 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-06 16:55 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-07 01:21 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-06 11:15 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-06 20:03 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-06 20:49 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-09-08 07:55 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-05 16:27 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-09-04 15:14 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-05 00:58 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-05 01:11 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-09-05 19:12 +0000
    Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-26 11:39 +1200
      Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 17:47 -0700
        Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-26 12:55 +1200
        Re: should c be a subset of c++? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-26 07:14 +0100
          Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 03:54 -0700
            Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-26 12:01 +0100
              Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 04:07 -0700
            Re: should c be a subset of c++? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-08-26 13:13 +0000
              Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 06:28 -0700
          Re: should c be a subset of c++? Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-26 09:05 -0500
            Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 07:18 -0700
            Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2015-08-26 13:31 -0400
              Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-26 18:52 +0100
              Re: should c be a subset of c++? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-26 14:04 -0400
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-27 09:25 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-08-26 21:37 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 14:49 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-27 13:16 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 18:47 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-27 14:46 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 19:58 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-27 11:31 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-27 10:40 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-27 03:34 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-27 12:54 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-27 10:46 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 07:56 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 13:08 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-27 16:36 -0400
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 08:49 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-28 10:24 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-08-27 12:00 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-27 11:55 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-27 14:09 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-27 15:14 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-28 11:38 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 07:17 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-27 16:24 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-27 18:58 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-27 20:35 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 13:07 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-27 21:36 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 14:31 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 08:25 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 13:30 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-27 14:49 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-27 22:34 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-27 16:33 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 00:31 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-27 18:16 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 10:08 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 04:03 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 23:18 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 04:34 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-29 08:03 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 12:02 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 06:02 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-29 07:52 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 16:14 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-29 11:26 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-28 18:06 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 18:33 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-29 11:38 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 17:08 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 17:12 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-29 12:15 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 18:20 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-28 17:13 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-28 12:38 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 04:58 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-28 15:36 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 07:11 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 10:57 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-27 16:21 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 11:34 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-27 17:16 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 13:03 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-27 18:38 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-27 23:29 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-28 01:15 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 11:25 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-27 16:39 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-28 00:56 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 00:45 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-28 13:05 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-28 10:46 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 11:38 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 05:23 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 13:51 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 07:20 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-28 09:55 -0500
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 15:10 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 09:03 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-28 13:38 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 06:11 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 13:59 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-28 07:31 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-28 20:36 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-28 15:55 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 14:57 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-28 17:45 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-28 22:36 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2015-08-28 23:38 +0000
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-29 09:29 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-28 17:52 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-08-28 19:27 +0100
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-28 21:30 +0200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-29 08:14 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-26 18:51 -0700
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-27 14:48 +1200
                Re: should c be a subset of c++? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-26 20:15 -0700
    Re: should c be a subset of c++? Ayan <selfjam@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 23:59 -0400
  Re: should c be a subset of c++? Lőrinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2015-08-27 12:03 +0200
    Re: should c be a subset of c++? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 03:33 -0700
      Re: should c be a subset of c++? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-27 13:04 +0200

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