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| From | Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: On Strachey |
| Date | 2022-05-06 03:53 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <87sfpn9xte.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <t51gn6$fjt$2@dont-email.me> <20220505225335.00007d75@reddwarf.jmc> <t51ig5$t3s$4@dont-email.me> <87czgrmok4.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <t51u9t$9co$3@dont-email.me> |
olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> writes: > On 5/5/2022 8:34 PM, Ben wrote: >> olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> On 5/5/2022 4:53 PM, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>> On Thu, 5 May 2022 16:48:21 -0500 >>>> olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 5/5/2022 4:39 PM, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 5 May 2022 16:30:41 -0500 >>>>>> olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/5/2022 2:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote: >>>>>>>> Strachey's "Impossible Program" [Strachey, 1965] is indeed >>>>>>>> impossible but not for the reason Strachey suggests. Strachey's >>>>>>>> impossible program is impossible not due to the contradiction he >>>>>>>> posits but is instead impossible due to an invalid infinite >>>>>>>> recursion (a category error in this case) which prevents the >>>>>>>> contradiction from ever being realised. As Strachey claims his >>>>>>>> "Impossible Program" proof is based on communication he had with >>>>>>>> Turing it seems reasonable to assume that Turing's proof has the >>>>>>>> same flaw. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suppose at some point I should stop trolling and actually read >>>>>>>> what Turing wrote so I don't have to rely on what seems >>>>>>>> reasonable. :D >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> /Flibble >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What Turing wrote never mentions halting: >>>>>>> https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Turing_Paper_1936.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> "Alan Turing proved in 1936 that a general algorithm to solve the >>>>>> halting problem for all possible program-input pairs cannot exist" >>>>>> [Wikipedia, 2022] >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes what you said is equally true: >>>>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235222082100050X >>>> >>>> The fact it wasn't called The Halting Problem when Turing wrote his >>>> paper doesn't really change any facts on the ground? >>> >>> Right, so it proves that you are right and Ben is wrong. >>> What Turing wrote in 1936 is now known as the halting theorem. >> >> Two people who have not read the paper have persuaded themselves that >> someone who has must be wrong about it. Is there any need for facts? >> >> Turing's 1936 paper is not about halting. It proves a related theorem >> about the outputs -- the symbols a TM writes to the tape. Did Turing >> know, in 1936, that halting could not be decided? Almost certainly. >> >> But he didn't prove it because his concern was about the strings >> written, even those that are not finite. >> >> (It also uses a term, "cycle-free" that is likely to mislead the casual >> reader.) > > Turing's paper is construed to be the foundation of the halting > theorem even though the term halting was not applied to it until 1958. > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235222082100050X It is not only construed to be, it /is/ the foundation of the halting theorem. -- Ben. "le génie humain a des limites, quand la bêtise humaine n’en a pas" Alexandre Dumas (fils)
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On Strachey Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-05 20:45 +0100
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-05 16:30 -0500
Re: On Strachey Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-05 22:39 +0100
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-05 16:48 -0500
Re: On Strachey Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-05 22:53 +0100
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-05 17:18 -0500
Re: On Strachey Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-06 02:34 +0100
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-05 20:40 -0500
Re: On Strachey Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-06 03:53 +0100
Re: On Strachey Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-06 02:59 +0100
Re: On Strachey Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-06 03:50 +0100
Re: On Strachey Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2022-05-05 23:01 -0600
Re: On Strachey Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-06 15:42 +0100
Re: On Strachey Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-06 14:56 +0100
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 11:58 -0500
Re: On Strachey Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-07 01:11 +0100
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 19:31 -0500
Re: On Strachey Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-07 02:07 +0100
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 20:34 -0500
Re: On Strachey Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-06 23:08 -0400
Re: On Strachey Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-07 23:47 +0100
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-07 18:14 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-07 16:35 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-07 19:19 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-07 17:48 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-07 20:08 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-07 18:26 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-07 21:20 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-07 19:36 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 10:31 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 09:02 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 11:05 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 09:30 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 11:39 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 09:52 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 12:18 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 10:26 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 15:17 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 13:27 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 15:51 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 13:59 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 16:19 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 14:30 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 17:24 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 15:56 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 18:13 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 16:44 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-09 19:52 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-09 19:50 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 14:51 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 14:53 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 17:18 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 15:34 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 17:44 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 15:53 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 18:03 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 16:11 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 18:19 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 16:23 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 18:30 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] wij <wyniijj2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 16:42 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ][ proof that I am correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-10 07:16 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ][ proof that I am correct ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-10 19:23 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-09 20:02 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2022-05-09 16:12 -0600
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 17:36 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2022-05-09 20:13 -0600
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-09 23:39 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-05-09 22:22 -0500
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Dennis Bush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 20:48 -0700
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-09 19:43 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-09 19:40 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-09 19:39 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-09 19:37 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-07 21:09 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-05-07 21:22 -0400
Re: On Strachey [ How nuts is that? ] Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-08 00:46 +0100
Re: On Strachey Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-05-07 00:58 +0100
Re: On Strachey Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-06 16:09 +0300
Re: On Strachey Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-05-06 14:59 +0100
Re: On Strachey Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-06 19:16 +0300
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 11:49 -0500
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 12:10 -0500
Re: On Strachey olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 12:34 -0500
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