Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.lisp
Subject	Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions
Date	2026-09-22 10:15 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87se31gqbw.fsf@nightsong.com> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <87qzioixej.fsf@nightsong.com> <27312.20006.551518.782946@parhasard.net> <87ik3zik9z.fsf@nightsong.com> <jwv4ifipmsc.fsf-monnier+comp.lang.lisp@gnu.org> <m3wlsd3hhy.fsf@pison.robolove.meer.net>

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Madhu <enometh@meer.net> writes:
> and without byte compilation?
> The 80s Elisp appeal for adoption was full control of the system, in the
> case of an error you could see where you stood, see what variable had
> which value, there were no secrets held by the author from the user by
> the system.

Emacs Lisp (in the 1980s the contraction "Elisp" was frowned on) had
bytecode compilation from the beginning.  The recursive evaluator did
make debugging easier, so you might decide to skip compiling the thing
you wanted to debug.  If you left EVERYTHING uncompiled, Emacs probably
would have been unusable and maybe unrunnable on the hardware of those
days.

> With edebug, native-compilation, byte compilation and lexical
> binding...  I get impenetrable backtraces and opaque closures

Maybe there could be some better debugging support for compiled code,
like debugging symbols that let you immediately reach the source code
and run it under interpretation.  Earlier Lisps certainly relied on
native compilation since pre-1980s hardware (think PDP-10) was even more
limited than the Vaxes that GNU Emacs was developed on.

I never used the Lisp machine debugging environment but I know was
amazing even by today's standards.  I don't know what debugging in the
Maclisp era was like.

Thread

Malicious Computer Architecture (was: Re: Prioritize Performance over Correctness) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-03 19:23 +0800
  Re: Malicious Computer Architecture (was: Re: Prioritize Performance over Correctness) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-03 14:29 +0000
    Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-03 14:26 -0300
  Johnny Depp prevention [Windows 11 etc...] (Was: Malicious Computer Architecture) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 18:10 +0200
    But how can you deploy. when its ROM? (Was: Johnny Depp prevention [Windows 11 etc...]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 18:15 +0200
      GPU Elasticity: Collective Communications Libraries (Was: But how can you deploy. when its ROM?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-07 14:37 +0200
        What are Flits and Phits? [Network on a Chip] (Re: GPU Elasticity: Collective Communications Libraries) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-07 18:07 +0200
          Cristallina: Thank you for the Beam (Re: What are Flits and Phits? [Network on a Chip]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-09 21:22 +0200
            Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-18 16:26 +0200
              How to shoot yourself in the foot (Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-18 16:50 +0200
                Re: How to shoot yourself in the foot (Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-19 03:24 +0800
              Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-19 03:21 +0800
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-18 21:13 +0100
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-18 22:49 +0000
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-19 08:32 +0800
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Anthk GM <anthk@disroot.org> - 2026-09-15 17:10 +0000
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-15 18:08 +0000
                You hear some noises in the distance (Was: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-15 20:21 +0200
                Re: You hear some noises in the distance (Was: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-15 20:05 +0000
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-21 02:08 -0400
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-21 15:25 +0800
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-21 16:28 -0400
                Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-19 08:27 +0800
              William A. Howard solved all his 99 problems (Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-23 01:48 +0200
          The Mac Neo is a Budget Monster [GPU Channels] (Re: What are Flits and Phits? [Network on a Chip]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-11 16:27 +0200
            The luminaries of duct-tape engineering [Sweeney and Torvald] (Was: The Mac Neo is a Budget Monster [GPU Channels]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-11 16:51 +0200
  Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-03 19:51 +0100
    Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 00:22 +0800
      Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-08-04 19:10 +0100
      Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-08-06 21:55 +0000
        Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-07 06:31 +0800
      Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-06 23:01 +0100
        Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-07 06:45 +0800
    Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Niocláisín Cóilín de Ghlostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-04 18:13 +0000
      Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 03:48 +0800
        Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Niocláisín Cóilín de Ghlostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-04 22:01 +0000
          Re: Malicious Computer Architecture Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 06:25 +0800
    GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-03 14:37 -0300
      Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-09-04 08:36 +0530
        Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-15 12:19 -0300
          Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-09-17 12:17 +0530
            Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-17 21:12 +0000
              Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-18 09:59 -0400
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-18 22:00 +0000
            Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-18 10:12 -0400
              Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-18 22:01 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 19:30 -0400
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-10-05 23:50 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-10-06 05:11 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-06 08:30 +0100
              Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-09-19 14:47 +0100
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-19 21:58 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-09-19 23:24 +0100
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-19 17:23 -0700
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-20 03:05 -0400
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-09-22 18:20 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-09-20 22:20 +0100
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-20 16:18 -0700
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-09-21 12:56 -0400
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-09-22 12:22 +0530
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-22 10:15 -0700
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-09-23 07:33 +0530
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-09-23 07:22 +0100
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-24 03:06 -0700
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-09-26 04:45 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-09-27 16:24 +0530
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-09-27 15:02 -0700
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-09-28 10:53 +0530
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 19:47 -0400
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-09-24 10:25 -0300
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 19:49 -0400
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-09-23 13:59 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-09-22 18:22 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-09-24 20:01 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-09-24 20:55 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 19:41 -0400
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-21 00:18 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-21 19:06 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-22 00:42 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-09-22 18:26 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-09-25 21:54 +0000
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 20:13 -0400
                Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-09-22 17:51 +0000
              Re: GNU Emacs native compiled functions (was Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-09-22 18:02 +0000
  A Case for Impurity: The Applied Pi Calculus (Re: Malicious Computer Architecture) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 14:58 +0200
    The Sandcastle of Paul Taraus Interactors (Re: A Case for Impurity: The Applied Pi Calculus) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 15:10 +0200

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