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Groups > comp.lang.c > #60963

Re: SAFEcode

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: SAFEcode
Date 2015-04-23 23:49 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87mw1y5uid.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <mhaa6c$e1k$1@dont-email.me> <Fv5_w.87085$fV3.69385@fx25.iad> <6bebfd70-8a5e-4f0e-a644-676cd1c96eaf@googlegroups.com> <87mw1z6jof.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <bc5ff600-46f6-46c6-9205-e09e0867e32a@googlegroups.com>

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Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:

> On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 2:47:21 PM UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>>
>> > If you're given a nice equation for the size distribution, then it becomes
>> > a different sort of problem. But all you're told is that the input is "human-
>> > composed English language messages".
>> > So the challenge is how to reason about that distribution.  That's something
>> > people seem to be unwilling to do, and they become quite aggressive
>> > about it - why I don't know,
>> 
>> Part of it is your double standard.  That challenge is one you've set
>> others, not yourself.  Now that you've posted enough for me to know what
>> it is you are interested in measuring, it turns out that there is
>> nothing about it which depends on the input being "human-composed
>> English language messages".  That vague and ill-defined term is there
>> only for other people to consider -- your experiment would give the same
>> result for FLT_MAX bytes drawn from /dev/random.
>>
> It turns out that if we grow from 1 by repeated multiplication by a constant
> over unity, and N bytes is distributed by an enemy in the worst possible
> way, then as long as our constant is much smaller than N, and N is much larger
> than 1, then the answer is that the optimum is to grow by a factor of
> 2.

I think you could derive this just from the set up, though I have only
an hand-waving argument about that.  Think of writing the allocation
size as a number in base m -- the multiplier used.  The only permitted
sizes are then 1, 10, 100 and so on.  The costs of these, because you
sum all the allocations that lead to the final one, are (roughly) these
numbers but with all the digits set to 1 (1, 11, 111, 1111 and so on).

Your set up forces N to be written as a sum of numbers with the highest
corresponding cost, but since all the digits must be zero or one, this
maximum cost is lowest in base 2.  As I say, rather vague (I'm sure you
can see the holes) but I am not motivated to look very deeply into this
particular setup.

<snip>
>> Another frustrating factor is your refusal to answer questions whilst
>> continuing to shift the focus.  This topic started simply as a
>> distraction from the problems you were having defending some careless
>> remarks about finding the minimum of a function.  It's then swerved from
>> being about finding an optimum strategy of allocations for certain size
>> distributions to something quite different -- minimising the worst-case
>> cost when the sending knows enough to construct specific message sets.
>> With each swerve, you've omitted to answer many specific questions about
>> what you mean, so everyone else is playing catch-up.
>>
> The question is how to grow a buffer. I suggest an answer, which was to grow
> by Fibonnaci numbers, and I suggested an experiment.

So far you have not done that experiment.  You've done another one.  I'm
not sure why you switched.

> that was rejected, and
> I was accused of planning to artificially generate data to prove that my 
> suggestion was right and everyone else's was wrong.

You've not addressed the point about about your silly insistence on
human-generated English text.  That's a vague requirement you insisted
be taken into account by everyone else but yourself.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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Thread

Re: SAFEcode Robbie Hatley <see.my.sig@for.my.address> - 2015-04-14 00:14 -0700
  Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 10:33 +0200
    Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 02:01 -0700
      Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-14 10:23 +0100
      Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 11:49 +0200
        Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 04:31 -0700
          Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 14:54 +0200
            Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 06:39 -0700
              Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 16:10 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:11 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 23:58 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 01:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 11:11 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 02:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 13:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 06:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 08:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 08:57 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 18:24 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 09:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 19:09 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 22:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 08:23 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 10:44 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 11:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 15:33 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 04:38 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-16 14:12 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 09:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 09:33 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 02:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 09:43 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 08:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 17:08 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-17 08:07 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 12:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 22:56 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 10:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 04:46 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 13:08 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 08:42 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-16 16:47 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 16:53 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 10:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-16 22:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:22 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 02:17 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-17 05:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 04:37 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 10:04 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 08:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-17 20:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 13:16 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 04:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 14:08 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 06:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 21:42 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 17:47 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 00:11 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 12:52 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-19 09:10 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 07:21 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-19 12:54 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 11:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 09:58 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 08:09 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 13:06 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-19 07:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 09:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 16:30 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 12:58 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 05:37 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 08:00 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 19:28 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-18 09:37 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 11:37 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-19 09:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 15:49 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 18:13 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-28 12:46 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-20 16:50 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-17 10:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-17 21:09 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 19:01 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 15:18 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 09:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 21:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 00:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-19 00:40 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 03:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-21 09:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 12:58 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 07:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 15:51 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-19 23:22 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 16:26 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 00:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 09:15 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 00:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 10:33 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 01:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 11:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 02:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 12:35 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 03:58 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 13:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 15:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 16:23 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 07:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 22:42 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 21:56 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 09:21 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 01:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 10:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 01:59 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 12:21 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 03:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 10:05 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 12:14 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 08:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 08:51 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 09:44 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 01:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 03:45 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 02:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 04:29 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 03:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 10:30 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 09:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 13:03 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 11:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 15:25 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 21:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 16:17 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 22:33 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 16:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 09:24 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 02:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-23 08:24 -0400
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 06:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 14:47 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 07:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 17:20 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 08:44 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:14 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-25 04:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 12:22 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-25 10:53 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 16:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-24 12:49 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 20:40 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 13:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 23:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 01:07 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 11:51 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 04:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-24 13:20 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 06:48 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:16 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-24 15:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 10:05 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 22:59 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-26 00:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 04:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 22:59 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-23 08:17 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 16:49 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 17:01 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 17:51 -0400
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 17:35 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 17:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 09:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-23 08:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 08:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 21:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 06:23 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:08 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 20:17 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 12:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-23 11:52 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-23 13:53 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:18 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-25 21:37 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-20 12:05 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 04:28 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 04:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 12:40 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 14:11 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 16:31 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode jadill33@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 09:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 22:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 11:10 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-20 22:43 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 22:59 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 09:27 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 15:12 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 07:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 16:43 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 08:01 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-21 22:29 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 11:09 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 10:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 10:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 16:51 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 02:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 14:44 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 16:58 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 01:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 17:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:09 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 10:50 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 11:12 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 11:37 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 05:54 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 15:31 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 06:48 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 16:29 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:13 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 08:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:25 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 10:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:24 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 01:18 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-23 06:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 09:36 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 08:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 13:04 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 09:52 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:23 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 10:28 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 08:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:53 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 12:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 16:44 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 22:58 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 09:53 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 10:15 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 13:57 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 23:01 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 23:46 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 01:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 08:32 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 10:02 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 12:06 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 20:18 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 12:30 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 21:30 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 13:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 20:21 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:24 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 09:46 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 02:57 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 08:42 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 16:19 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 09:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 08:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 11:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 11:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-17 09:51 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:28 +0300
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:32 +0200
              Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-14 15:24 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-14 18:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 12:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-14 21:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 13:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-14 21:39 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-15 01:20 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-15 01:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 01:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 08:17 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 09:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 18:33 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 10:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 20:55 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-15 19:27 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:53 +0300
                Re: SAFEcode Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:51 +1200
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-17 02:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 08:14 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-14 21:02 +0100
              Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 08:33 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:54 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 11:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 12:41 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 13:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 14:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 15:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 10:03 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 10:02 +0200
      Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:13 +0300
  Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-14 13:03 +0100

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