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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #219078

Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter?

From Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter?
Date 2021-09-27 21:10 -0300
Organization Bridgewater Institute for Advanced Study - Blacksmith Shop
Message-ID <87mtnxo8zd.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> (permalink)
References <siqj0a$b43$1@dont-email.me> <20210926214459.e2e9fdae6ea8594e0d32a821@eircom.net> <sis17q$f6f$2@dont-email.me> <20210927110325.67e1a19c9eec44732ee3a2c2@eircom.net>

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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 10:00:40 +0100
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> But are conventions determined by historical
>> personages some of whom are long dead, or do
>> the later contributors also have a say in what is a convention?
> 
> The origins of conventions are generally obscured by time, even when
> everyone involved is present they can be difficult to pin down, whatever
> documentation may remain is usually only a thin remnant of the original
> discussions and thinking. Once established they tend to have enormous
> inertia by virtue of group acceptance and tend only to change if pretty much
> everyone finds them irksome.

Circa 1972, I visited the celebrated Dauphinee Block Shop in
Lunenburg, NS.   Three-storey frame building with flat-belt-driven
machinery that made the whole building vibrate.

In the cellar they had a blacksmith shop and that day the smith
was making hooks for attachment to fairly large tackle blocks.  He had
several dozen half done and was making the eye by splitting the end of
the iron stock, wrapping the split ends around a mandrel and
forge-welding them shut.

I asked why he was doing it that way as I would have punched or
slot-punched a hole and opened it to desired size, stronger and less
error prone.

"It's stronger that way" was his answer.  As I was a young novice
smith and he was a middle-aged career smith, I didn't argue but  I
didn't get it.

It was years later, looking at a buoy bell clapper salvaged from
Boston Harbor, that it dawned on me.  When Dauphinee's was
established, wrought iron was the article of trade used for anything
"iron".  Wrought iron has a grain resembling wood grain.  Its
structure is anisotropic.  You never [1] make a wrought iron structural
element with a hole under tension near the end of a bar for the same
reason that you don't do that with a 1" pine or oak board; it stresses
the area around the hole in its weakest direction.

Modern "iron" is more properly called "mild steel" and, unlike wrought
iron, it is for practical purposes isotropic.

Dauphinee's had been making tackle since before Bessemer and open
hearth replaced wrought iron with mild steel as the standard article
of commerce.  They'd settled, correctly, on the way to make a tension
eye at the end of an iron rod circa 1850 and had been passing that
wisdom on for 120 years.

[1] Never say never.  The reason the buoy bell clapper [2] caught my
    eye was that it was so corroded that I could plainly see the grain
    of the wrought iron from which it was forged.  The smith had in
    fact punched the eye near the end of the stock but had then forge
    welded a strip of iron across the end where it might tear out with
    the grain of the strip at right angles to that of the clapper and
    thus orthogonal to the direction of tension.

[2] Harold Edgerton collection, MIT.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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Thread

Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-26 20:51 +0100
  Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-09-26 14:20 -0600
    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-27 09:58 +0100
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-27 10:03 -0500
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-09-27 19:57 +0000
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-09-28 13:09 +0000
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> - 2021-09-29 11:54 -0500
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-29 20:42 +0100
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-29 20:20 +0000
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 01:13 +0000
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-09-29 22:25 -0400
  Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-26 21:44 +0100
    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-27 01:41 -0300
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-09-26 23:54 -0600
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-27 00:01 -0700
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-27 20:25 -0300
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-09-28 00:03 -0600
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> - 2021-09-28 01:04 -0500
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Nemo <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-27 13:45 -0400
    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-27 10:00 +0100
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-27 11:03 +0100
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-27 21:10 -0300
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-27 18:23 -0500
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> - 2021-09-28 01:18 -0500
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 01:20 +0000
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-29 17:10 -0500
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-30 09:41 +0100
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-30 10:22 +0100
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-09-30 10:42 +0100
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-30 14:31 +0000
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-10-01 01:58 +0000
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 10:07 -0500
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-30 10:23 -0500
  Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-27 15:35 -0400
    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-27 21:34 +0100
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-27 18:24 -0500
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-27 21:45 -0400
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-09-28 13:12 +0000
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-28 18:33 +0100
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-28 18:16 +0000
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-28 20:20 +0100
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-28 16:39 -0700
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> - 2021-09-29 12:03 -0500
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 23:11 -0500
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 23:17 -0500
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-10-01 18:57 +0000
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-06 02:11 -0500
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-10-06 14:22 -0300
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 00:31 -0500
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-10-07 14:33 -0300
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 13:49 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-10-07 16:52 -0300
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-07 20:13 +0000
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 18:54 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-07 23:50 +0000
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-07 20:12 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 20:24 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-08 08:09 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-08 13:13 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-08 14:53 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-08 19:47 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-09 13:03 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-09 20:56 -0400
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-10-09 05:48 +0000
                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-12 10:26 -0500
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-28 19:03 +0000
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 16:45 -0500
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-29 17:27 -0500
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 16:41 -0500
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-28 16:55 -0700
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 20:53 -0400
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-28 09:36 -0700
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 16:46 -0500
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 01:18 +0000
    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 01:17 +0000

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