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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #157848

Re: DEC and The Americans

From Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: DEC and The Americans
Date 2016-01-26 15:26 -0800
Organization Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID <87k2mvzzv4.fsf@garlic.com> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <3oudnWDG_IrdFTrLnZ2dnUU78TWdnZ2d@giganews.com> <87si1kz0hi.fsf@garlic.com> <b18563b5-dac5-4afe-bc68-d4255024fcff@googlegroups.com> <87oac8yvpo.fsf@garlic.com> <3a15fe69-75ef-4f10-b0e6-da7b35d6195b@googlegroups.com>

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hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> Thanks for the explanation.
>
> Did the "attached processor" on the 158 make a significant improvement
> in throughput performance?
>
> I don't recall the specific details other than the 158 was maxed out,
> meaning program compilation and testing had to be done during offpeak
> hours.  Response time was slow, although that may have been, in part
> due to relatively low speed analog comm lines supporting many terminals
> off of a single line.  I _think_ the data rate was 4800, synchronous,
> on private "conditioned" lines.  (Soon afterwards, they went to 9600,
> then went to digital.  Digital lines took some effort to become 
> reliable.)
>
> Also, back then, overall reliability wasn't so great, for a variety
> of reasons--CICS crash, comm line failure, remote modem/controller
> failure, central comm controller crash, CPU crash, etc.

the issue is what software. standard IBM mainframe cache two-processor
system slowed the processor cycle down by 10% to allow for cross-cache
signalling (and any actual cross-cache signalling slowed things down
further) ... so two processor hardware starts out only 1.8 times a
single processor. Then if the operating system had lots of lock
contention and other multiprocessor coordination ... it further reduced
effective throughput. MVS on 370s in the 70s claimed muiltiprocessor
throughput 1.3-1.5 times single processor.

I had done some slight of hand for vm370 multiprocessor throughput that
had extremely low lock contention and multiprocessor coordination
overhead. In cache machines, typical MIPS rate is based on some expected
cache miss rate, high-cache miss rate results in much lower
MIPS/throughput than the nominal announced MIP rate ... and very low
cache miss rate will have higher than nominal announced MIP rate.

I had some attached-processor configurations that had run 100% CPU
utilization and relatively high I/O rate before adding the 2nd
processor. Asynchronous I/O interrupts involved displaying application
cache contents with device driver cache contents (very high
instantaneous cache miss rates) ... and then switching back to running
appliction reversed the process, replacing device driver cache contents
with application cache contents (again very high cache miss rates)
... all of which much lower measured MIPS rate and throughput.  The
applications code running on the 2nd processor now had much higher MIPS
rate and throughput (because there was no longer the asynchronous I/O
interrupts. The processor with channels & I/O interrupts frequently had
higher throughput also .... since it periodically effectively batched
several I/O interrupts in sequence, while device driver code still
remained in cache, significantly improving its cache-hit rate, MIPS-rate
and throughput.

The very low operating system multiprocessor overhead plus careful
management of the cache effects could get more than twice the throughput
of a single processor (from hardware that nominally was only 1.8 times
that of a single processor) ... compared to the 1.3-1.5 times
experienced by MVS users.

past posts mentioning SMP, shared-memory, multiprocessor, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp

Note that CICS didn't get multiprocessor support until 2004. Original
CICS implementation was single task/process and then did its own
finegrain task multithreading within the CICS environment. To take
advantage of more powerful computers and multiple processors
... customers started running multiple CICS instances (each as its own
independent operating system task). Early in the century ... an
outsorucer that ran the dataprocessing backend that managed cable tv
settop boxes for most of the cable countries in the US ... was running
over 120 CICS instances on a single (multiprocessor) machine.

past posts mentioning CICS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#cics

trivia ... as undergraduate in the 60s, I got hired fulltime by the
univ. to support their production IBM mainframe. The univ. library got
an ONR grant to do online catelogue and used part of the money to get
2321 datacell. The project was also selected to be one of the betatest
sites for the original CICS program product ... and I got to do a lot of
debugging of the betatest CICS code.

Some of the history from CICS site ... gone 404, but lives on at
the wayback machine:

The Evolution of CICS: CICS and Multi-region Operation (1980)
http://web.archive.org/web/20040705000349/http://www.yelavich.com/history/ev198001.htm
The Evolution of CICS: CICS and Multiprocessor Exploitation (2004)
http://web.archive.org/web/20041023110006/http://www.yelavich.com/history/ev200402.htm

webpage
http://web.archive.org/web/20050509233156/http://www.yelavich.com/

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-25 17:26 +0300
  Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-25 15:45 +0000
    Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-25 10:53 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 04:48 +1100
        Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-01-26 14:14 -0800
          Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-26 17:21 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
  Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 10:58 -0500
    Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-25 16:17 +0000
    Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-25 11:47 -0500
    Re: DEC and The Americans John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2016-01-25 16:47 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-01-25 17:41 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2016-01-25 19:25 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-01-25 16:15 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 13:17 -0500
        Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-01-26 08:20 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-26 11:32 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:23 -0600
        Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:20 -0600
          Re: DEC and The Americans scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2016-01-27 19:40 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> - 2016-01-27 22:40 -0800
      Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-25 15:07 -0800
        Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 19:34 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-25 19:38 -0800
            Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 23:55 -0500
            Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:32 -0600
              Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 19:31 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-27 21:10 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 11:49 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-28 15:33 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 19:00 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-29 00:48 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 21:02 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-29 07:32 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-28 15:32 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 19:03 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 20:58 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-29 10:40 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-29 19:11 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-29 23:21 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-30 03:45 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 09:25 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-01 17:45 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-01 21:29 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 00:33 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-02 03:04 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 15:42 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-02 18:40 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:39 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:43 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 22:35 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-03 23:59 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-04 06:03 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-04 11:24 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-04 10:51 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Blanco" <rko4410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 05:12 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-04 19:29 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-04 11:26 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-05 02:51 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-05 10:45 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-05 10:47 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 10:21 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> - 2016-02-06 08:06 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-06 10:02 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-06 19:20 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-02-16 04:41 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> - 2016-02-17 07:45 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-06 19:18 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-05 20:35 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-05 23:12 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-06 01:34 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-06 07:39 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 14:02 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-08 10:01 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 19:36 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-08 11:45 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:14 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:35 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 18:19 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:45 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 08:08 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 19:57 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-05 19:05 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-05 21:32 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-06 22:49 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-01 21:18 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-02 02:59 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-02 15:38 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:43 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-29 18:58 -0600
              Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-27 03:46 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-27 06:14 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-27 14:28 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:26 -0600
            Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-26 17:57 -0600
        Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-26 14:35 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-26 14:53 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 09:58 -0800
              Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 11:05 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 11:41 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 12:38 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-26 15:26 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 19:25 -0800
            Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:38 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-26 07:54 -0800
          Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-26 11:36 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:39 -0600
      Re: DEC and The Americans Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2016-01-26 21:16 +0200
        Re: DEC and The Americans "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-28 10:07 -0800
    Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 05:48 +1100
    Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:43 -0600
        Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2016-02-03 00:36 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-02 18:42 -0800
            Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-03 14:25 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:58 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-04 15:14 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-05 05:01 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-05 14:41 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 04:42 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-06 14:35 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-06 11:45 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-06 18:09 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-06 15:49 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-07 05:33 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-07 11:12 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-07 11:42 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-07 20:06 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 06:06 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-07 09:52 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:56 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 12:33 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 16:34 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:08 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 06:10 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-04 13:42 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-04 14:23 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-05 14:41 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-05 14:32 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 13:05 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 10:34 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-05 13:08 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-05 15:34 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-06 14:35 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-06 14:45 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:05 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-07 17:27 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-07 17:28 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-02-07 12:07 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-08 21:07 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-07 19:56 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:53 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:11 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:49 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 16:43 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-06 13:18 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 20:08 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 14:22 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-06 20:52 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-07 07:09 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-06 16:38 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-06 20:09 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 18:36 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 06:18 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 08:10 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-07 19:57 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-07 19:24 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-07 09:45 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 04:16 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-08 17:19 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 12:22 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 11:16 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-09 13:55 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:49 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-08 16:11 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 17:47 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 04:01 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-06 16:13 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 03:49 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-07 12:12 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 18:26 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-07 15:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 11:09 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 03:56 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 13:59 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-08 14:28 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-08 14:38 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2016-02-08 15:56 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-08 19:17 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-08 17:19 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 02:03 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:09 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-09 17:27 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans tracymnelson@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 10:36 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-09 15:07 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-08 19:08 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:10 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 02:52 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-11 13:30 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-11 14:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-11 11:20 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:58 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:57 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-11 21:22 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-11 17:07 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 17:11 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-11 15:32 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-11 17:56 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-11 22:36 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-12 00:35 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:47 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 05:04 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:22 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2016-02-12 23:19 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:42 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:32 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-16 15:58 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-11 22:39 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Blanco" <rko4410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 15:35 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans terry-groups@glaver.org - 2016-02-11 17:47 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-11 22:39 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-12 12:22 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-12 07:23 -0700
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-12 14:50 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2016-02-16 01:39 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:17 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:50 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-13 08:48 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-13 16:54 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 19:06 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-14 03:50 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-14 14:11 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 07:35 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:37 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 05:09 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-15 17:05 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 18:07 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-14 19:35 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:33 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 17:58 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-15 03:08 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-15 08:21 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 10:07 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-14 16:25 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 21:43 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-14 22:07 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-15 21:27 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-16 00:36 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 03:42 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-16 21:25 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-17 09:40 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-17 15:04 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-17 14:57 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-16 09:09 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2016-02-17 01:08 +0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-16 18:55 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-14 15:24 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 04:48 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-14 21:40 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 11:42 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-15 10:29 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-15 06:02 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-14 17:22 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-14 18:13 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-15 21:27 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-15 23:45 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 00:16 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-15 21:00 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 03:42 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-16 09:12 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-16 15:29 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-13 16:47 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 18:54 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-13 22:05 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:54 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-13 16:27 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-13 18:05 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans roger.ivie@gmail.com - 2016-02-13 11:18 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-02-15 22:19 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-15 23:47 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:44 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 05:18 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-09 18:42 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-08 21:09 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Warren Adams <adamswa@hiwaay.net> - 2016-02-08 17:00 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-09 03:18 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-08 08:14 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-08 16:46 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2016-02-08 16:50 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Andy Burns <usenet.jan2016@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2016-02-08 19:13 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 11:26 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-08 18:26 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 17:26 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-02-08 16:16 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-09 14:21 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Hilo Black" <hbk897@gmail.com> - 2016-02-10 02:05 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 15:49 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-09 15:07 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-09 15:47 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 19:01 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-10 12:46 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-10 07:34 +0100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-11 04:30 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-11 13:30 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 04:40 +1100
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:03 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 15:51 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-11 14:09 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-11 18:42 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-11 13:59 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-12 08:13 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-12 12:42 -0600
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:46 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-02-12 12:20 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-12 04:33 -0400
  Re: DEC and The Americans Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2016-01-25 17:27 +0000
    Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-25 11:18 -0800
  Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-25 10:24 -0800
    Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 06:14 +1100
    Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-25 17:53 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans "kipg" <io@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 10:40 +1100
  Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 05:40 +1100
  Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-25 19:12 -0500
    Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-26 14:22 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-26 16:20 +0100
        Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-26 11:36 -0500
        Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:37 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-27 03:58 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-27 06:16 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-27 18:14 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:34 -0500
  Re: DEC and The Americans Evan Koblentz <ekoblentz@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 09:03 -0800
    Re: DEC and The Americans Evan Koblentz <ekoblentz@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 09:07 -0800
    Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-27 17:31 -0500
    Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-28 10:17 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-28 07:26 -0800
      Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-28 11:36 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-28 10:31 -0800
        Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-28 19:23 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-29 14:07 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-29 20:12 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-29 21:11 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-29 19:30 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-01-29 21:20 -0400
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-30 12:48 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-31 11:17 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-02 15:09 -0800
                Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-03 12:40 -0500
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-01 14:42 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-01 16:03 +0000
                Re: DEC and The Americans scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-01 17:11 +0000
  Re: DEC and The Americans bleep@compy.0-0 (Colonel Bleep) - 2016-01-30 07:07 +0000
    Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 09:43 -0500
    Re: DEC and The Americans Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-01-30 20:36 +0000

csiph-web