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Groups > comp.lang.c > #67041

Re: Recursion or loop, design questions

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Recursion or loop, design questions
Date 2015-08-09 21:22 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87h9o843fm.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <e99ae7b2-ed07-4cd3-b321-9ae102818b23@googlegroups.com> <7qmmqal01d1iks2eb07lpv4apjbemooqoa@4ax.com> <mofr0j$a4p$1@dont-email.me> <87si8j7s27.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <55c75bd3.17302671@news.xs4all.nl>

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raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) writes:

> Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> 
>> > On 19/07/2015 09:15, Robert Wessel wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 14:28:25 -0700 (PDT), Malcolm McLean
>> >> <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> And certainly I think it's time to admit that this stuff is too
>> >>> complicated for the general programmer
>> >>
>> >> I certainly disagree.  Functional programming is sufficiently
>> >> different from more imperative models that there's a quite steep
>> >> learning curve if all you know is on the imperative side of the world.
>> >>
>> >> Going from C to Haskell is much harder than going from C to Java, for
>> >> example.  But functional languages are not actually harder to learn
>> >> than imperative languages in the first place.  IOW, teaching a
>> >> non-programmer Haskell is about as difficult as teaching them C or
>> >> Java.  So the "general programmer" is pretty much just as capable of
>> >> learning to program in a functional language as they we able to learn
>> >> to program in C, or whatever.  It's just that the pain is more like
>> >> learning to program in the first place, rather than learning yet
>> >> another ~imperative language.
>> >
>> > It helps that the available functional languages are more high level
>> > than ones such as C (so that you don't need to worry about managing
>> > lists and strings of any length for example).
>> >
>> > But I think that imperative style matches what is common in everyday
>> > life (from instructions on filling in your tax return, to how to build
>> > self-assembly furniture, to the flow-chart I'm obliged to create these
>> > days if I want someone else to be able to operate my TV/PVR/DVD
>> > setup).
>> >
>> > I don't think functional style is used in the same way, unless someone
>> > wants to give any counter-examples from real life.
>> 
>> Functional programming is often called "declarative programming", and
>> that style does occur in real life -- all the time in fact.  The
>> "declarative" answer to the problem "what is the EU flag" is "twelve
>> gold stars in a ring on top of a 3 by 2 blue rectangle":
>> 
>> euFlag = stars 12 `atop` rect 3 2 # fc blue # lw none
>
> Mind you, those are closer to markup languages than to programming
> languages. It's not normally possible to describe an _action_ using
> heraldic language or similar, only an object (in the non-programming
> meaning of that word).

You are right that there are computational tasks that are not a natural
fit for declarative languages (search for "Haskell" and "tackling the
awkward squad" for example), but it is often the result of actions that
is the important thing, and those are frequently amenable to a
declarative style.

(Unrelated, and even more off-topic, Haskell has a purely functional but
imperative sub-language within it.)

> When you ask for the process of how to _make_ an EU flag, you get a lot
> closer to imperative style programming:
> - take a piece of cloth 1.5 times as wide as high;
> - paint this cloth aquamarine blue;
> - take twenty-four yellow, five-pointed stars of size x;
> - lightly mark a circle on the flag, 2/3 the height of the flag;
> - mark twelve points on the flag, situated equidistantly along this
> circle, starting at the top;
> - sew two stars to each point, one in front, one in back;
> - erase the circle.

Yes, of course.  But the point I was responding to was that a functional
style is not used in real life.  I think it very often is.

>> Ask almost anyone how to draw a flag and they'll give you a declarative
>> program rather than a procedural one (though they might mix the two up a
>> bit).
>
> That's because they'll _describe_ the flag, not tell you how to draw
> it.

But, as the example shows, you don't need to know exactly how to draw a
flag to draw it.  The procedural style usually says too much.

> Ask, OTOH, one of those "Learn To Draw In 12 Easy Lessons" how to draw a
> horse, and it won't give you a description of a horse; instead, it'll
> tell you to start by drawing an ellipse, then four rectangles, then
> another ellipse, then lines connecting those ellipses, then refinements,
> and so on.
>
>> You can get the same sort of answer about recipes if you ask the
>> right questions.  What is a your favourite fish pie?  It's smoked
>> haddock, cod and prawns cooked with onion, garlic, tomatoes and capers
>> with a grilled mashed potato topping.
>
> Again, that's a description of the pie, _not_ a recipe.

Only because of your (correct but modern) definition.  Old recipes were
often exactly like the one above.

> A good cook can
> turn one into the other, but a good cook_book_ will give you the recipe,
> not the description. The Rick Stein babble is descriptive and
> declarative, the recipe is imperative.

I grant you the recipe example is stretching my point to breaking, but
your reply does highlight an important part of the analogy.  The "good
cook" plays the role of the "good programming language".  High-level
languages let you say more using fewer words.

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 12:49 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 12:03 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 14:15 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 13:49 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:15 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:25 +0100
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:36 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:02 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:48 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-09 09:54 -0400
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 15:08 +0100
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:16 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 15:18 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:24 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:42 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-10 00:57 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:39 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 21:44 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 22:50 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 13:49 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 13:52 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:26 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:28 +0100
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-09 05:28 -0700
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:09 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-09 09:25 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 18:41 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-10 11:52 -0400
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 18:44 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-10 18:52 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 20:34 +0200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-10 11:50 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 20:56 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-10 13:30 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-11 10:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 16:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-12 00:20 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions gordonb.j93iw@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2015-07-11 21:26 -0500
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-09 10:08 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 19:19 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 19:11 +0100
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:28 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 13:41 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:22 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 18:45 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-09 18:05 +0000
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 07:06 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 15:51 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 09:36 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-15 10:49 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-15 13:05 -0500
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 10:28 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 12:41 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-20 21:37 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-24 13:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-24 15:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 12:42 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-24 15:38 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 12:39 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-30 22:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-02 07:09 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-02 14:43 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-03 09:48 -0700
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:23 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Andrew Cooper <amc96@cam.ac.uk> - 2015-07-10 00:52 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-10 01:28 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-07-12 13:20 +0300
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-12 11:39 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 10:28 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 08:17 +1200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 14:46 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 19:27 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-13 21:16 +0000
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-10 08:34 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-10 00:46 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 12:35 +0200
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-10 12:47 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 14:29 +0200
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 06:36 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 07:16 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 14:23 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 15:27 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 19:27 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 15:27 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 08:00 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 15:46 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 16:01 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-12 00:36 +0000
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 13:55 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 14:12 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 19:45 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 14:34 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 15:37 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-16 10:07 +0100
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-16 10:18 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-16 13:35 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-16 21:10 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 13:55 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-17 11:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 11:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-17 20:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 13:48 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 15:12 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-21 10:56 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-21 19:43 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-21 12:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-21 21:17 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 23:58 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-22 20:39 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-24 00:54 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-24 09:06 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-24 08:04 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-24 13:48 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-25 14:02 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 13:41 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 15:41 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-02 21:51 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:20 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-04 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-04 06:02 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 14:03 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 11:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 11:21 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 12:18 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 21:40 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 22:57 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-05 08:45 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 14:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:22 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 14:28 -0700
                Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:35 +0200
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-04 14:45 -0700
                Re: Language "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:55 +0200
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:44 -0700
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 17:18 -0700
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 01:32 -0700
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 09:51 +0100
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 12:55 +0100
                Re: Language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 19:12 +0100
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-06 17:09 +0100
                Re: Language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 15:10 -0700
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-07 09:48 +0100
                Re: Language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 13:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-06 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:32 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-06 11:06 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 11:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-06 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-06 17:59 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 15:54 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:56 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 23:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 09:27 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:09 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:34 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-08 13:00 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 14:22 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 16:12 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-08 17:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 13:34 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 08:38 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 09:31 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 01:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 04:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 20:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-25 23:59 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 15:53 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 19:43 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-25 20:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-27 23:53 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-03 10:04 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 21:34 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 13:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 21:57 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 10:44 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-18 11:00 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-18 05:25 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 14:26 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-18 17:38 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 10:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 21:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 14:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 15:01 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 15:39 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 15:44 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 15:55 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-19 10:58 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 16:26 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 17:23 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 18:04 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 00:03 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-19 13:30 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 08:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 20:59 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-20 07:23 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-19 21:11 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 13:55 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-05 11:22 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 17:22 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 10:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 03:15 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-19 10:36 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 12:45 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 13:05 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 13:09 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 10:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-19 22:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 14:05 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-09 21:22 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-09 16:14 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 05:39 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 01:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-10 21:03 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 03:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:16 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 03:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:45 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-22 14:07 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-22 14:07 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 02:47 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-19 22:23 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 05:01 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 09:55 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-19 23:13 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 10:19 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 17:21 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-20 00:25 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 11:45 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-20 02:34 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-20 10:52 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 05:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 22:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 17:24 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 22:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 21:07 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 02:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-19 10:12 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 16:54 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-20 12:34 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 07:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-27 11:08 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 15:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 14:59 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 08:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:05 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-19 12:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 12:57 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 21:16 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:50 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 09:13 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 15:04 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 12:40 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 16:27 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 14:26 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 09:58 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 15:24 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-18 10:29 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-18 17:32 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 22:58 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:13 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 21:49 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:12 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-20 15:21 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-20 15:23 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:31 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-21 04:08 -0700
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 08:50 -0700
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 18:43 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 18:54 +0200
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-11 13:06 -0400
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 23:45 +0200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-12 17:48 -0400
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 01:27 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 19:39 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 14:51 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 23:51 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 08:04 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-16 09:36 +1200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 10:37 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-21 20:55 +1200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 07:39 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-16 09:41 +1200

csiph-web