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Groups > comp.lang.c > #65862

Re: Recursion or loop, design questions

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Recursion or loop, design questions
Date 2015-07-18 21:31 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87380l9pi7.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <87mvyvc5a8.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <tail-call-20150718110105@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <87wpxxby1o.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <mod81i$h0l$1@dont-email.me> <644aa8d6-46f4-474f-a668-a5a8990f37e2@googlegroups.com>

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Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:

> On Saturday, July 18, 2015 at 11:00:55 AM UTC+1, Bart wrote:
>> 
>> > In a non-void function its a return statement whose expression is a
>> > function call.  In a void function it's an expression statement that
>> > consists of nothing but a function call immediately preceding a return
>> > statement.
>> 
>> That deepens the mystery.
>> 
>> So that final function call can be to any function, not necessarily this 
>> one, or to a chain of such function calls which come back to this one?
>> 
> It's not that hard.
>
> [...] Consider something more realistic, we 
> have atree with "left" and "right" children. We want to count the nodes.
>
> so int countnodes(NODE *root)
> {
>    if(!root)
>      return 0;
>    else return countnodes(root->left) + countnodes(root->right) + 1;
> }
>
> that's not tail recursive. It looks like it ought to be, because 
> the class are at the tail. But the return isn't a single call.
>
> we can write it like this.
>
> void countnodes(NODE *root, int *N)
> {
>    if(root)
>    {
>      (*N)++;
>      countnodes(root->left, N);
>      countnodes(root->right, N);
>    }
> }

It's less clunky to use an int parameter:

  int countnodes(NODE *tree, int n)
  {
     if (tree)
          return countnodes(tree->right, countnodes(tree->left, n) + 1);
     else return n;
  }

> now the last call can be optimised away to to a jump. Let's do it.
>
> void countnodes(NODE *root, int *N)
> {
> Ilovetailrecursion:
>    if(root)
>    {
>      (*N)++;
>      countnodes(root->left, N);
>      root = nodes->right;
>      goto Ilovetailrecursion;
>    }
> }

in my version you get:

  int countnodes(NODE *tree, int n)
  {
  countnodes:
       if (tree) {
            n = countnodes(tree->left, n) + 1;
            tree = tree->right;
            goto countnodes;
       }
       return n;
  }

> if we try to optimise out the first call, however, we run into problems.
> We've destroyed the root pointer. The only way of doing it is to
> store a series of pointers leading back to the root, which the call
> stack does for you, for free.
>
> However using a pointer is kind of cluntsy. So functional programming 
> language will let you do something along the lines of
>
> int countnodes(root)
> {
>    if(root is null) return 0;
>    return sum(1, countnodes(root->left), countnodes(root->right) );
> } 
>
> In C, that's not tail recursive, because countnodes must be called
> before sum.

That's not a tail call in any language.

> In functional programming, sum is called first, then it
> evaluates its arguments.

No, that's just wrong.  That's wrong as a general statement about
functional programming, and it's wrong as an attempt to suggest that
the syntax above is a tail call.

> That's the trick. It's not that hard, but it's counter-intuitive,
> it doesn't match the way most people think about programming,
> which is following a list of instructions, like a cooking
> recipe, not specifying an expression to evaluate.

No, that's not the trick.  There is no trick.  To a first approximation,
the notion of a tail call is the same way in functional and
non-functional languages.

<snip>
> It's worth getting a handle on functional programming. It's the flavour
> of the month. Tail recursion is really a weakness of the paradigm,
> the power and dynamic of it is that you forget about the underlying
> machine. It's just a concession that has to be made to the fact
> that calls are expensive and stacks limited.

I don't think you are well-placed to offer a critique the functional
paradigm.

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 12:49 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 12:03 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 14:15 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 13:49 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:15 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:25 +0100
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:36 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:02 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:48 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-09 09:54 -0400
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 15:08 +0100
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:16 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 15:18 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 16:24 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:42 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-10 00:57 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-09 20:39 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 21:44 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 22:50 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 13:49 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 13:52 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:26 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 14:28 +0100
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-09 05:28 -0700
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:09 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-09 09:25 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 18:41 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-10 11:52 -0400
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 18:44 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-10 18:52 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 20:34 +0200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-10 11:50 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 20:56 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-10 13:30 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-11 10:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 16:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-12 00:20 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions gordonb.j93iw@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2015-07-11 21:26 -0500
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-09 10:08 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 19:19 +0200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-09 19:11 +0100
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:28 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-09 13:41 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 15:22 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 18:45 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-09 18:05 +0000
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 07:06 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 15:51 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 09:36 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-15 10:49 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-15 13:05 -0500
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 10:28 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 12:41 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-20 21:37 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-24 13:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-24 15:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 12:42 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-24 15:38 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 12:39 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-30 22:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-02 07:09 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-02 14:43 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-03 09:48 -0700
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-09 21:23 +0200
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Andrew Cooper <amc96@cam.ac.uk> - 2015-07-10 00:52 +0100
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-10 01:28 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-07-12 13:20 +0300
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-12 11:39 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 10:28 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 08:17 +1200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 14:46 +0200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 19:27 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-13 21:16 +0000
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-10 08:34 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-10 00:46 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 12:35 +0200
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-10 12:47 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-10 14:29 +0200
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 06:36 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 07:16 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 14:23 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 15:27 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 19:27 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 15:27 +0100
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 08:00 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-11 15:46 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-11 16:01 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-12 00:36 +0000
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 13:55 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 14:12 -0700
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 19:45 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 14:34 -0700
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-15 15:37 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-16 10:07 +0100
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-16 10:18 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-16 13:35 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-16 21:10 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 13:55 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-17 11:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 11:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-17 20:51 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 13:48 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 15:12 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-21 10:56 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-21 19:43 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-21 12:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-21 21:17 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-21 23:58 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-22 20:39 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-24 00:54 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-24 09:06 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-24 08:04 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-24 13:48 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-25 14:02 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 13:41 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 15:41 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-02 21:51 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:20 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-04 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-04 06:02 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 14:03 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 11:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 11:21 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 12:18 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:35 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 21:40 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 22:57 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-05 08:45 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 14:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:22 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 14:28 -0700
                Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:35 +0200
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-04 14:45 -0700
                Re: Language "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:55 +0200
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:44 -0700
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 17:18 -0700
                Re: Language (was: Re: Recursion or loop, design questions) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 01:32 -0700
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 09:51 +0100
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 12:55 +0100
                Re: Language Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 19:12 +0100
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-06 17:09 +0100
                Re: Language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 15:10 -0700
                Re: Language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-07 09:48 +0100
                Re: Language luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 13:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-06 10:54 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:32 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-06 11:06 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 11:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-08-06 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-08-06 17:59 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 15:54 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:56 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 23:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 09:27 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:09 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:34 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-08 13:00 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 14:22 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 16:12 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-08-08 17:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 13:34 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 08:38 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 09:31 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 01:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 04:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 20:19 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-25 23:59 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 15:53 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-25 19:43 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-25 20:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-27 23:53 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-03 10:04 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 21:34 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-17 13:52 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-17 21:57 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 10:44 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-18 11:00 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-18 05:25 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 14:26 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-18 17:38 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 10:05 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 21:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 14:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 15:01 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 15:39 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 15:44 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 15:55 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-19 10:58 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 16:26 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-18 17:23 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-18 18:04 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 00:03 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-19 13:30 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 08:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 20:59 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 21:19 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-20 07:23 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-19 21:11 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:37 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 13:55 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-09-05 11:22 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 17:22 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 10:25 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 03:15 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-19 10:36 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 12:45 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 13:05 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-07-19 13:09 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 10:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-19 22:31 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-09 14:05 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-09 21:22 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-09 16:14 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 05:39 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 01:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-08-10 21:03 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 03:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:16 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-10 03:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:45 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-22 14:07 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-08-22 14:07 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 02:47 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-19 22:23 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 05:01 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 09:55 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-19 23:13 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 10:19 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 17:21 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-20 00:25 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 11:45 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-20 02:34 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-20 10:52 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 05:31 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 22:16 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 17:24 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 22:36 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-20 21:07 +1200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 02:51 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-19 10:12 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-19 16:54 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-07-20 12:34 -0500
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 07:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-27 11:08 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-30 15:45 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 14:59 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-08-04 08:40 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 23:05 +0200
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-19 12:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-19 12:57 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-19 21:16 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:50 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 09:13 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 15:04 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 12:40 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 16:27 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 14:26 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-18 09:58 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 15:24 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-18 10:29 -0400
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-18 17:32 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:28 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 22:58 +0000
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:13 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-18 21:49 +0100
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 15:12 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-20 15:21 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-20 15:23 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:46 -0700
                Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 03:31 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-21 04:08 -0700
  Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 08:50 -0700
    Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 18:43 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-11 18:54 +0200
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-11 13:06 -0400
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 23:45 +0200
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-12 17:48 -0400
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions "Morten W. Petersen" <morphex@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 01:27 +0200
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 19:39 +0100
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 14:51 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-11 23:51 +0100
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 08:04 -0700
        Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-16 09:36 +1200
          Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 10:37 -0700
            Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-21 20:55 +1200
              Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-23 07:39 -0700
      Re: Recursion or loop, design questions Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-16 09:41 +1200

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