Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #514284

Re: 'Dark Matter'

From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: 'Dark Matter'
Date 2015-08-16 16:17 +0200
Organization PointedEars Software (PES)
Message-ID <6546704.bo8BDzL9iD@PointedEars.de> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <mqimbt$5fd$1@pcls7.std.com> <2180563.nrxrSpbJKA@PointedEars.de> <mqpi3b$678$1@dont-email.me> <3987332.uPPTNPNPaI@PointedEars.de> <mqpp8a$21m$1@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw

Poutnik wrote:

> Dne 16/08/2015 v 11:09 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn napsal(a):
>> Poutnik wrote:
>>> Dne 13/08/2015 v 20:23 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn napsal(a):
>>>> Michael Moroney wrote:
>>>>> Therefore, photon's momentum is p = hf/c in the x direction, and the
>>>>> recoil must be -hf/c (that is, in the -x direction) to keep the sum
>>>>> zero (and conserve momentum).
>>>> Again, no.  Whatever could recoil is _not_ a photon; it has a mass not
>>>> equal to zero.  Its momentum is calculated *differently* than that of a
>>>> photon.
>>> Sure, but it does change momentum conservation.
>> Come again?
> 
> Some basic facts come again and again.

“Come again?” is colloquial English for “I beg your pardon?” which means 
“Please repeat what you just said, I did not understand it.”  Which, in this 
case, was sarcastic, of course, as you wrote nonsense.

>>> If massless photon has momentum vec p, recoiling massive ion get
>>> momentum difference -vec p.
>> In the ion’s rest frame, if there is only one ion and one photon, and one
>> photon for each ion.  No doubt about *that*.
> 
> It is unwise to set frame by this way.

No, it is very wise, as it points out the difference between the velocity of 
a particle that is standing still with respect to the rest of the Sun, and a 
particle that is moving with respect to the rest of the Sun, and a moving 
Sun.  Different to what was claimed.

>>> Eventual relativistic effects do not change it.
>> Nobody claimed it would.  You are taking statements out of context.
> 
> then there was no need to mess with relativistic formulas.

You must be joking.  You misrepresented what I said.
 
>>> The ion velocity change has in such a case
>>> to be calculated by SR formula
>>> from the momentum change,  and not otherwise.
>> Exactly.  Which also means that it has to be taken into account how much
>> of the photon’s energy comes from or is converted into kinetic energy,
>> with the additional caveat that additional kinetic energy does not need
>> to mean the kinetic energy of the receiving object itself (but could as
>> well be that of its constituents).
> 
> Kinetic energy is not much relevant, as it is not elastic interaction.

Nonsense.  It is high kinetic energy of nuclei in the Sun that allows 
tunneling through the Coulomb barrier, making nuclear fusion possible
in the first place.  Of course, that kinetic energy is in part transferred 
to particles created, such as photon.  That is why they are *gamma* photons 
in and near the core.

> Kinetic energy follows here momentum conservation.

Yes (insofar as one is willing to ascribe coherent meaning to that 
incoherent statement). There is a “p” for momentum in

  E_kin = √((m c²)² + (p c)²) − m c².

> KE of moving object will be reflected in higher/lower energy and higher
> or lower momentum of departing photon.

AISB.

>> You really should read the whole posting and the whole discussion before
>> you
> 
> I did. You really should expect the worst at others.

If you did, then there is are only two possibilities left: you did not read 
carefully enough, or you did read it carefully but decided to misrepresent 
what I said.  Given your other straw man arguments, the latter is more 
likely.
 

PointedEars
-- 
“Science is empirical: knowing the answer means nothing;
 testing your knowledge means everything.”
   —Dr. Lawrence M. Krauss, theoretical physicist,
    in “A Universe from Nothing” (2009)

Back to sci.physics | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-27 07:28 -0700
  'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-27 18:16 -0700
    Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-28 07:17 -0400
    Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-28 15:18 -0700
      Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-07-29 02:22 +0000
    Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-10 21:18 +0200
      Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 13:51 -0700
        Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 15:58 -0500
          Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-11 01:04 +0200
            Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:49 -0500
              Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:26 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 08:31 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:41 -0400
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:51 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:44 -0400
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 11:00 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-11 18:44 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 08:51 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:17 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 10:45 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:50 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 10:01 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 08:10 -0700
              Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 13:44 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:51 -0500
      Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 21:28 +0000
        Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 14:35 -0700
          Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 23:31 +0000
            Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 15:22 +0200
              Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 14:43 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 19:39 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 18:06 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 20:23 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 19:37 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 00:39 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 15:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:25 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:15 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:31 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-08-16 16:09 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' [OT] Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 18:47 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 10:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 11:09 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 12:40 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:17 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:46 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 10:42 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 11:21 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 12:58 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:19 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:49 +0200
                light is magneto-electrical noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 19:10 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 13:49 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 20:50 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 14:03 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 00:43 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 17:53 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 09:34 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 08:05 -0400
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 11:36 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:00 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:22 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:30 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:56 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 11:17 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 11:26 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 13:01 +0200
              Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 10:14 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 10:43 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 13:07 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:21 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:07 +0200
        Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-11 01:03 +0200
          Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 23:40 +0000
            Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 13:41 +0200
              Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 14:54 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 08:13 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 10:46 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 09:48 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 10:00 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 13:45 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 16:01 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 07:07 -0400
                Re: 'Dark Matter' noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 10:39 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 20:29 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 19:14 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 19:28 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-15 15:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 12:23 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:04 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:32 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:33 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:02 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 19:24 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 20:31 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 22:16 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 22:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 20:45 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 22:32 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 22:57 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 23:22 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 23:34 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 23:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 07:43 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 08:07 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 21:40 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 22:35 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 23:36 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 23:50 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 07:56 +0200
          Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:48 -0500
            Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 13:41 +0200
  Re: 'Dark Matter' "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 13:27 -0700
  Re: 'Dark Matter' "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 14:42 -0700
  Re: 'Dark Matter' "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 14:01 -0700
    Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 20:21 -0700
    Re: 'Dark Matter' benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 01:26 -0400
      Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 06:07 -0400
        Re: 'Dark Matter' Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 08:05 -0500
        Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 07:04 -0700
          Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 19:14 -0400
  Re: 'Dark Matter' "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 09:12 -0700

csiph-web