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Re: Chip shortage--use relays

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 07:06:17 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 1:51:39 PM UTC-6, Questor wrote:
>> Those vent windows were notoriously easy to force open, which in turn made it 
>> easy to snake something through them and open the door. There's a good reason 
>> why cars no longer have them -- they facilitated auto break-ins and theft.
>
>Surely the design could have been modified so that it would be impossible to force
>them open without either breaking the glass or ripping off the metal of the door?

Perhaps.  I'm not a mechanical engineer, so I don't know much about what would
be cheap and easy to do.  (And if it's not cheap and easy, it's not going to be
done across many thousands of cars.)  It seems to me that the nature of the
vent -- the vertical pivot, a short and simple mechanism -- lends itself to this
kind of exploit.


>But in any case, that's not a good reason. Surely the appropriate solution to a
>problem like that, which imposes the costs where they belong - on dishonest
>automobile thieves, not honest car owners - would be to increase penalties for
>car theft so that those penalties would work as a successful deterrent.

What a naive, idealistic -- and punitive point of view.  You seem to be unaware
of just how quickly and easily a reasonably skilled thief can break into a car
through a vent window.  The correct unit of time to use is seconds, not minutes.
Couple that with the obvious impossibility of patrolling or monitoring even a
majority of cars.  Unless they get caught in the act, thieves breaking into cars
rarely get caught, so the risk/reward ratio for them is generally favorable.

We should be able to leave our doors unlocked too -- but we don't, because
simply locking a door is a more effective deterrent than raising the penalties
for burglary.  If vent windows are a serious vulnerability, then eliminating
them will prevent more break-ins than harsher penalties.  This goes along with
other common sense precautions, such as not leaving any valuables in your car.

Aside:  Years ago I had a old, bulky Telefunken portable multi-band radio that I
kept in my car so I could listen to FM stations, as the car was not so equipped.
One night thieves broke into my car, ostensibly to steal it, but when they got
their hands on it they realized it wasn't worth taking.  In the morning I found
my car had been broken into, but nothing was taken -- they left the radio on the
front seat.


>We haven't had any nuclear wars, so what I mean by a "successful deterrent" is
>one that results in us not having any car thefts for a similar length of time.
>
>Of course, perhaps one stupid person will have to steal a car, so that people can
>actually see the penalty carried out for it to have the required emotional impact
>to achieve the desired result.
>
>Of course, there's that pesky Eighth Amendment...

If increasing the penalties for crimes was truly effective, then we could simply
assign the death penalty to every infraction and presto, crime would virtually
stop overnight.  At some point increased penalties have no appreciable effect.
Rather than incurring the time and expense of grinding through the judicial
system, reducing or eliminating the opportunity for a crime to occur is cheaper
and often easier.  This has been the trend in car design, but there is always a
new wrinkle:  a big problem these days is catalytic converter thefts.

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Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-07 12:28 -0700
  Re: Chip shortage--use relays Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:48 +0100
    Re: Chip shortage--use relays Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-07-07 16:40 -0400
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 15:25 -0700
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-07-13 23:28 +0000
        Re: Chip shortage--use relays scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-14 00:22 +0000
          Re: Chip shortage--use relays Freddy1X <freddy1X@indyX.netX> - 2021-07-13 21:00 -0400
          Re: Chip shortage--use relays Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-07-14 02:41 -0300
            Re: Chip shortage--use relays J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-14 05:57 -0400
        Re: Chip shortage--use relays Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-07-14 18:53 -0400
  Re: Chip shortage--use relays Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-07 20:42 +0100
    Re: Chip shortage--use relays Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 23:25 -0700
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 15:23 -0700
        Re: Chip shortage--use relays Robert Netzlof <rnetzlof@gmail.com> - 2021-07-14 12:43 -0700
          Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-16 11:10 -0700
  Re: Chip shortage--use relays antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-07-13 23:17 +0000
    Re: Chip shortage--use relays Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-07-13 19:28 -0400
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-07-14 11:33 +0000
    Re: Chip shortage--use relays gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-14 13:06 +0100
    Re: Chip shortage--use relays drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2021-08-17 12:47 -0500
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-08-17 20:27 +0100
  Re: Chip shortage--use relays Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-14 10:12 -0700
    Re: Chip shortage--use relays Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-14 19:29 +0100
    Re: Chip shortage--use relays Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-14 18:40 +0000
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-07-14 16:47 -0300
        Re: Chip shortage--use relays Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-14 18:18 -0700
          Re: Chip shortage--use relays Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-07-16 02:26 -0300
        Re: Chip shortage--use relays greymaus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-07-15 19:36 +0000
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-ugr-this> - 2021-07-15 07:27 -0700
        Re: Chip shortage--use relays Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-15 14:04 -0700
          Re: Chip shortage--use relays Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-16 00:00 +0000
            Re: Chip shortage--use relays Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-07-15 20:43 -0400
              Re: Chip shortage--use relays Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-16 10:56 -0700
            Re: Chip shortage--use relays songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-07-15 20:46 -0400
            Re: Chip shortage--use relays Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-07-16 02:53 -0300
              Re: Chip shortage--use relays Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-07-16 08:08 -0400
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-16 13:20 +0100
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-07-16 16:27 -0400
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-16 16:32 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-07-16 16:49 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:14 -0400
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-16 11:54 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-16 22:40 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-07-16 17:28 -0300
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-16 22:40 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 11:41 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-odi-this> - 2021-07-17 07:18 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-16 10:56 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-16 11:51 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-07-16 19:51 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-17 07:06 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-17 14:42 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-17 17:29 +0100
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays greymaus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-07-18 07:52 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 11:47 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-20 20:13 +0100
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-07-17 20:39 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-18 06:28 +0100
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-18 07:46 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-18 07:45 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-18 11:15 -0400
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-18 11:18 -0400
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-18 14:08 -0400
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-18 19:41 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-18 16:08 -0400
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-18 16:43 -0400
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-18 23:19 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-r25-this> - 2021-07-19 08:26 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-19 16:50 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-19 18:13 +0100
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-19 18:51 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-07-20 18:05 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-f2b-this> - 2021-07-20 07:36 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-07-20 16:17 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-07-19 20:13 +0000
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-18 16:30 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-07-18 01:53 -0500
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2021-07-18 08:25 -0600
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 11:45 -0700
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-07-21 17:30 -0500
                Re: Chip shortage--use relays greymaus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-07-22 10:46 +0000
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2021-07-15 11:09 -0700
        Re: Chip shortage--use relays cmadams@cmadams.net (Chris Adams) - 2021-07-15 22:07 -0500
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-16 11:09 -0700
        Re: Chip shortage--use relays J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 17:25 -0400
          Re: Chip shortage--use relays Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-17 07:09 -0700
            Re: Chip shortage--use relays Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-17 07:11 -0700
            Re: Chip shortage--use relays J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 11:48 -0400
      Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 11:52 -0700
    Re: Chip shortage--use relays undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-16 11:49 -0700
  Re: Chip shortage--use relays John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-16 01:51 +0000

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