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Re: DEC

From usenet@only.tnx (Questor)
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: DEC
Organization random access
Message-ID <5f1f99bf.596447@news.dslextreme.com> (permalink)
References <rff2qf$h31$1@dont-email.me> <5f1dd814.1088935@news.dslextreme.com> <1411296828.617497929.421726.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
Date 2020-07-28 03:21 +0000

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On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:23:41 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>>On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:38:37 -0700, Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>>I'm struck again by how a fairly large computer company with such a 
>>>large and vibrant community of users could disappear like the Titanic 
>>>leaving so few traces. You'd think some pieces could have been rescued.
>>Surely you know that DEC was purchased by Compaq, which was subsequently bought
>>by HP.
>>
>>What traces, and where would you expect to find them, twenty-five years after
>>DEC ceased to exist as an independent company?
>
>Many computer companies of the era still have current models, at least in
>name. Besides IBM z there are systems from Unisys, both former Burroughs
>and former Sperry.

Where are the mainframes from NCR, Control Data, General Electric, and RCA?
Where are the minicomputers from Data General, Wang, and Prime?  Where are the
Apollo workstations and the Gateway PCs?  Where are Wordstar, Wordperfect,
Lotus 1-2-3, Quattro Pro, Novell Netware, Banyan Vines...

I submit that disappearing and leaving few traces is the norm for most companies
rather than the exception.


>I would have expected HP to still be marketing something
>called a VAX, with somewhat familiar software. I think DEC was bigger than
>both Compaq and HP, so it was a case of the mouse eating the elephant.

It's not clear to me what Compaq was expecting to get from purchasing DEC.  It's
obvious they weren't going to be making VAXes.  The story I heard was that they
wanted DEC's support network.  When in turn HP bought Compaq, it was also
extremely unlikely they would revive the VAX.  Didn't/doesn't HP have their own
line of minicomputers?  Why would they have brought back the VAX?

I would say that it was Compaq that killed the VAX.  I don't know how viable the
product line was at that point; I would surmise that it was ailing.


>>DEC holds an important place in the history of the computer business and also
>>the ARPAnet.
>>
>>Hobbyists and DEC enthusiasts have recovered much of the software and made it
>>available via emulators.  Museums have restored some of the hardware.
>>
>>Whether your point of view is that the market didn't want what DEC was offering,
>>or that DEC didn't sell what the market wanted, the consequence was the same.
>>The natural result of that lack of alignment is that there is little to no DEC
>>presence in the commercial arena today.  Obviously had things been different,
>>DEC would have continued longer as a viable business and we would see more signs
>>of it in the corporate world today.
>
>Ask Barb about Palmer. There does seem to have been haste to break up the
>business and sell it for parts, none of which are still around in
>recognizable form. It's like companies bought by private equity, who have
>no interest at all in the company, or its products or intellectual capital,
>but only in, for example, in the value of the real estate it owns.

[spits]  I have no need to ask Ms. Huizenga for her under-informed and overly
biased opinion about anything.  DEC was stumbling years before Palmer took the
reins.  It wasn't so obvious at the time, but the seeds of its decline were
already sown.


>> I can name dozens of now-defunct companies, prominent in their time and business
>> sector, of which there are even fewer traces remaining today.

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Thread

DEC Iron Spring Software <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 09:38 -0700
  Re: DEC Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-07-24 17:12 -0300
  Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 17:14 -0400
    Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 19:43 -0700
      Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 23:28 -0400
    Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 02:06 -0700
      Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 05:27 -0400
        Re: DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-25 10:58 +0100
          Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-25 17:21 +0000
            Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 13:54 -0400
              Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 14:43 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 18:05 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 20:27 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 21:08 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:29 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:30 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 00:06 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-05 06:06 +0000
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-07 10:19 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-07 20:01 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-07 22:45 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-08 13:35 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-09 15:33 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 13:16 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 15:00 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 18:35 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-08-10 23:10 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-09 19:18 +0000
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-09 18:40 -0400
                Re: wiki software, not 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-09 15:30 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:39 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:43 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 23:32 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-26 21:45 +0000
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 18:01 -0400
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 06:38 +0100
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-26 01:24 +0000
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 18:39 -0700
                Re: 360 PCs was DEC Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-26 20:18 +0000
            Re: 360 PCs was DEC Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-25 19:39 +0100
        Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 12:50 -0700
  Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 02:26 -0700
  Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-26 19:23 +0000
    Re: DEC Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-26 21:05 +0000
    Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-26 16:23 -0700
      Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 21:24 -0400
        Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-27 11:42 -0700
      Re: DEC archaeology John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-27 02:41 +0000
        Re: DEC archaeology Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-27 07:37 +0100
          Re: DEC archaeology Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-27 07:10 +0000
            Re: DEC archaeology Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 09:03 +0100
              Re: DEC archaeology Michael LeVine <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> - 2020-07-27 02:09 -0700
                Re: DEC archaeology Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 11:27 +0100
              Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-27 12:22 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-07-27 20:51 -0400
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 06:02 +0100
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-28 08:29 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 17:30 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2020-07-28 18:18 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-28 19:57 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 21:32 +0100
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2020-07-28 21:34 +0000
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 18:33 -0400
                Re: Origin of Niven/Pournelle quips (was: DEC archaeology) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-28 20:55 +0100
          Re: DEC archaeology John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-27 14:53 +0000
            Re: DEC archaeology drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-07-27 11:30 -0500
            Re: DEC archaeology scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-27 16:37 +0000
              Re: DEC archaeology drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-07-28 10:24 -0500
                Re: DEC archaeology scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-28 15:59 +0000
        Re: DEC archaeology Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-27 11:42 -0700
          Re: DEC archaeology J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-27 18:47 -0400
          Re: DEC archaeology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-27 17:43 -0700
      Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-28 03:21 +0000
        Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 17:30 +0000
        Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-28 20:27 +0000
          Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 18:53 -0400
            Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 10:36 +0100
              Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2020-08-02 12:55 +0200
                Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 12:49 -0400
            Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 14:08 -0700
          Re: ou sont les ordinateurs d'antan, was DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-29 14:04 -0700
        Re: DEC Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2020-07-30 03:49 -0600
          Re: DEC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-30 14:41 +0000
            Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-30 10:12 -0700
              Re: DEC scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-30 18:40 +0000
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-30 12:02 -0700
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-07-31 02:38 -0700
                Re: DEC large computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-31 20:21 +0000
                Re: DEC large computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-07-31 23:23 +0000
                Re: DEC large computers J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 21:13 -0400
                Re: DEC large computers Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-01 10:39 +0000
                Re: vectors, was DEC large computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 02:21 +0000
                Re: vectors, was DEC large computers Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 11:14 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-07-31 20:30 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 00:00 -0400
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:20 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-01 07:00 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 08:18 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 11:52 -0400
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-02 21:58 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 18:50 -0400
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 18:23 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 13:34 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-01 00:55 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:27 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 17:27 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-01 12:11 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 19:56 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-01 20:18 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-01 23:42 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 20:32 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Gerard Schildberger <gerard46@rrt.net> - 2020-08-02 12:58 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-01 16:28 -0400
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2020-08-02 20:42 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 20:27 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-02 00:28 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-02 08:01 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 16:47 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 19:45 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-08-03 21:00 -0600
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-02 22:45 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 07:45 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-01 08:24 +0000
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:30 -0700
                Re: IBM models 91, 195 & CDC 7600 robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:34 -0700
                Re: DEC large computers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-01 00:51 -0700
                Re: DEC large computers robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-01 02:23 -0700
                Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-07-31 21:16 -0400
                Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2020-08-01 01:56 +0000
                Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2020-08-01 15:59 +0100
                Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-08-01 22:09 -0400
                Re: Jupiter alternatives [was Re: DEC] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-08-01 22:07 -0400
                Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-08-03 00:32 +0000
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-02 23:54 -0700
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 07:45 -0700
                Re: DEC robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-03 09:16 -0700
                Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 10:10 -0700
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 10:35 -0700
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 11:28 -0700
                Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 21:26 +0000
                Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-03 16:38 -0700
                Re: DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-03 21:44 -0400
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 23:55 -0700
                Re: DEC Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 08:05 -0400
                Re: DEC J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 08:59 -0400
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-04 06:29 -0700
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-04 07:48 -0700
                Re: DEC Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-05 04:13 +0000
                Re: DEC robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-04 22:45 -0700
                Re: DEC JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-05 12:33 -0500
                Re: DEC "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-05 19:31 +0000
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-04 22:57 -0700
                Re: DEC Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-05 08:13 +0000
                Re: DEC Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-05 10:58 -0700
                Re: DEC drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-08-05 13:28 -0500
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-06 16:21 -0700
                Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-03 18:23 +0000
                Re: DEC Terry Kennedy <terry-groups@glaver.org> - 2020-08-03 11:31 -0700
                Re: DEC danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2020-08-03 18:38 +0000
                Re: DEC "m. thompson" <michael.99.thompson@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 05:38 -0700
                Re: DEC Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-04 18:54 +0000
                Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-08-03 00:32 +0000
                Re: DEC Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-30 13:29 -0700
          Re: DEC usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-07-30 20:27 +0000

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