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Re: formats and endians

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On 01/23/2015 01:30 PM, Greg Martin wrote:
> On 2015-01-23, James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 01/23/2015 12:45 PM, Greg Martin wrote:
>> ...
>>> Given enough monkees with typewriters and enough time the complete works
>>> of Shakespeare may well be produced, however there is an
>>> equal likelyhood that, "but soft what light through yonder window
>>> breaks", will be replaced with, "but soft what gas through yonder wazoo
>>> breaks".
>>
>> The likelihoods are not equal. Because the replacement is shorter than
>> the original, it's more likely to be generated, by a factor which (IIRC)
>> is of the same order as the number of different keys on the keyboard.
>> The precise factor depends upon how random monkeys' typing is.
> 
> Hm. I hadn't thought of that, though I wonder if once you take into
> account the possible permutations of each sentence fragment (48! vs 46!) and
> then facter that? against the possible combinations of keystrokes the 
> difference must approach zero awful quickly.

Not really. Here's a simple way to think about it. Consider the set of
all possible sequences of exactly N characters typed by the monkeys,
where N is much greater than the size of his complete works. Let n be
the number of different characters that can be appear at any give
location in one of those sequences. Consider every single location in
any of those sequences where you could find a complete copy of
Shakespeare's version of those works could be found. For each such
location, there are n^2 other sequences which are identical to that
sequence, except that they contain the alternative version of that
sentence in the corresponding location, followed by two random letters.
In addition, there's two locations near the end of an N-character
sequence where you could find the start of the shorter version, but
could not find the start of the longer version, because there's not
enough room. I think there's some double counting here, because you
could have sequences where the two "random characters" happen to be the
first two characters of another instance of the shorter sequence - but
for N >> the size of the complete works, I think the factor of n^2
dominates all other differences.


> Obviously, I haven't a clue about the math involved here so it probably
> would have been better put, "should a pack of monkeys produce the
> complete works of Shakespeare then there is a likelyhood they also
> produced the complete works of the monkees".

"The Monkees" ran for two seasons, with a total of 58 episodes, In
addition, "Between 1966 and 1970, The Monkees released 185 songs on 9
stereo albums, 5 mono albums, and 9 non-LP singles."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkees>. Shakespeare is credited with
"38 plays, 154 sonnets, and a variety of other poems"
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_bibliography>. I have no idea
how to even estimate the size in characters of either set of "complete
works", therefore I have no idea which is shorter. As I've shown above,
even a small difference in the total length makes a huge difference in
the likelihood of generating the sequence randomly.

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formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 04:49 -0800
  formats and endians John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 05:24 -0800
    Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 05:38 -0800
      Re: formats and endians Kleuske <kleuske@nowhere.net> - 2014-12-16 13:55 +0000
        Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 11:49 -0600
          Re: formats and endians BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-16 21:37 -0600
            Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 01:08 -0800
              Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 02:42 -0800
            Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-18 14:38 -0600
              Re: formats and endians Rosario193 <Rosario@invalid.invalid> - 2014-12-18 23:09 +0100
              Re: formats and endians BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-18 16:52 -0600
          Re: formats and endians Kleuske <kleuske@nowhere.net> - 2014-12-17 11:11 +0000
            Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 03:49 -0800
            Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-18 16:28 -0600
              Re: formats and endians BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-18 19:38 -0600
              Re: formats and endians Kleuske <kleuske@nowhere.net> - 2014-12-21 14:17 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-22 02:19 -0800
                Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-01-15 12:18 -0600
                Re: formats and endians Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-01-15 22:35 +0000
                Re: formats and endians raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-01-20 16:06 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-01-22 15:41 -0800
                Re: formats and endians Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 00:45 -0600
                Re: formats and endians Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2015-01-23 08:52 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 05:47 -0600
                Re: formats and endians Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-01-23 03:51 -0800
                Re: formats and endians Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-01-23 12:18 +0000
                Re: formats and endians raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-01-23 13:49 +0000
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 07:02 -0800
                Re: formats and endians fmassei@gmail.com - 2015-01-23 07:39 -0800
                Re: formats and endians Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2015-01-23 10:38 -0500
                Re: formats and endians Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-01-23 17:45 +0000
                Re: formats and endians James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-01-23 12:59 -0500
                Re: formats and endians Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-01-23 18:30 +0000
                Re: formats and endians James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-01-26 12:35 -0500
                Re: formats and endians Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2015-01-26 18:15 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-01-26 10:53 -0800
                Re: formats and endians Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2015-01-26 19:06 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-01-26 17:54 -0600
                Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-01-26 19:09 -0600
                Re: formats and endians Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2015-01-27 01:49 +0000
                Re: formats and endians James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-01-26 21:37 -0500
                Re: formats and endians raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-01-23 22:33 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:02 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Greg Martin <greg.at.softsprocket@dot.com> - 2015-01-23 18:50 +0000
                Re: formats and endians glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-01-24 00:01 +0000
                Re: formats and endians raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-01-24 10:05 +0000
                Re: formats and endians glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-01-24 11:57 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-24 07:48 -0800
                Re: formats and endians Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-01-24 10:43 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-24 07:52 -0800
                Re: formats and endians raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-01-23 13:51 +0000
      Re: formats and endians John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 06:56 -0800
    Re: formats and endians Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-16 13:20 -0600
      Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 18:00 -0600
        Re: formats and endians "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2014-12-17 16:32 -0500
  Re: formats and endians David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-12-16 15:26 +0100
    Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 06:57 -0800
      Re: formats and endians Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2014-12-16 11:34 -0500
        Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 08:47 -0800
          Re: formats and endians BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 17:02 +0000
            Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 10:49 -0800
              Re: formats and endians BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 19:10 +0000
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 11:28 -0800
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 11:43 -0800
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 11:58 -0800
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 12:20 -0800
                Re: formats and endians BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 20:21 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-12-16 13:08 -0800
                Re: formats and endians Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-12-16 21:19 +0000
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 13:27 -0800
                Re: formats and endians Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-16 16:41 -0800
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 13:22 -0800
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 14:00 -0800
                Re: formats and endians BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 22:26 +0000
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 14:54 -0800
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 15:09 -0800
                Re: formats and endians BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 20:08 +0000
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 12:48 -0800
            Re: formats and endians Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-16 22:21 +0000
              Re: formats and endians BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-16 22:39 +0000
                Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 15:32 -0800
                Re: formats and endians glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-17 00:51 +0000
                Re: formats and endians BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-12-17 11:04 +0000
                Re: formats and endians glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-17 17:04 +0000
          Re: formats and endians Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2014-12-16 12:29 -0500
          Re: formats and endians Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2014-12-16 12:40 -0500
            Re: formats and endians Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2014-12-16 13:10 -0500
              Re: formats and endians Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-12-16 18:35 +0000
                Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 12:57 -0600
                Re: formats and endians Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2014-12-16 15:11 -0500
                Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 18:10 -0600
            Re: formats and endians fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 10:51 -0800
            Re: formats and endians glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-12-16 19:43 +0000
        Re: formats and endians Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-16 10:37 -0800
          Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 13:05 -0600
            Re: formats and endians Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-16 11:49 -0800
              Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 17:16 -0600
          Re: formats and endians Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2014-12-16 14:55 -0500
            Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 17:48 -0600
              Re: formats and endians BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-17 00:18 -0600
                Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-20 12:21 -0600
                Re: formats and endians BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-22 01:38 -0600
      Re: formats and endians Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-12-16 11:45 -0600
    Re: formats and endians Michael Angelo Ravera <maravera@prodigy.net> - 2014-12-18 16:50 -0800
  Re: formats and endians Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-12-17 04:51 +0000
    Re: formats and endians Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-12-19 10:16 -0800

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