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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #371274

Re: Faster than the speed of light

From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Faster than the speed of light
Date 2015-12-02 02:03 +0100
Organization PointedEars Software (PES)
Message-ID <5293285.Jt8EJjuv3N@PointedEars.de> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <dc530mFa43nU1@mid.individual.net> <2968108.JjNB03i3lN@PointedEars.de> <dc6oa3FnmrbU2@mid.individual.net> <2754458.KSOMVSVrb0@PointedEars.de> <dc6rfgFoeliU1@mid.individual.net>

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Sylvia Else wrote:

> On 2/12/2015 10:53 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 2/12/2015 8:42 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> “Spooky action at a distance” is _not_, different from what you stated,
>>>> “a hypothetical mechanism behind entanglement for which there is not
>>>> only
>>>> no evidence at all […]”.  Instead, it is Einstein’s derision of the
>>>> very
>>>> idea of quantum entanglement.  However, quantum entanglement was
>>>> experimentally confirmed later (after Einstein’s death).
>>> You seem to be assuming that "spooky action at a distance" is the same
>>> as entanglement. It's not.
>> Certainly it is not “a hypothetical mechanism behind entanglement for
>> which there is not only no evidence at all […]” as you claimed.
>>
>> Regarding whether I am also mistaken:
>>
>> ‘1. Introduction and summary of results. One of the most remarkable
>> aspects of quantum physics is the notion of quantum entanglement. If two
>> particles are in an entangled state, then, even if the particles are
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> physically separated by a great distance, they behave in some respects as 
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> a single entity. The entangled particles exhibit what physicists call
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> nonlocal effects. […]   Nonlocal effects were alluded to in a famous 1935
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> paper by Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen [13]. Einstein later referred to
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> this as “spukhafte Fernwirkungen” (spooky actions at a distance)
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> (see [12, 25, 30] for more historical background).’ [1]
>>
>>> Entanglement is a predicted correlation between measurements. Nothing
>>> more.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>> […]
>> ___________
>> [1] Buhrman, H., and Cleve, R., and Van Dam, W (1998). Quantum
>> [Entanglement
>>      and Communication Complexity. SIAM J. COMPUT, 30(6), pp. 1829–1841.
>>      doi=10.1.1.20.8324.
>>      <http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.20.8324>
> 
> It is apparent from the context in which the phrase "nonlocal effects"
> is used, that they mean nonlocal results.

Fallacy: Wishful thinking.  Not supported by any facts.

> They're not suggesting any nonlocal actions.
> 
> I come back to the same point. You seem to be assuming that
> entanglement, which has been abundantly verified, implies action at a
> distance (whether spooky, or otherwise).

I did not and I do not.  That is a gross misinterpretation of what I posted, 
and by now I am not sure anymore if that is not intentional.

> It doesn't. We just don't know how the universe achieves entanglement.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement#Methods_of_creating_entanglement>

> Indeed, there may be nothing there to know - perhaps it just is.

Or maybe, just maybe, you have no clue what you are talking about and do not 
*want* to know more about it.  To spell it out for you:

Nonlocal effects are an *outcome* of quantum entanglement *only* (although, 
as it turns out, not a necessary one).  Einstein derisively called these 
effects “spooky action at a distance” because he did not believe that 
quantum entanglement was possible, especially as it could not be reconciled 
with special relativity, namely the speed of light as the maximum speed for 
the transmission of information.  (Although he helped quantum mechanics to 
start off by explaining the photoelectric effect with the assumption of 
photons – light quanta –, Einstein eventually did not believe that the 
probabilistic approach of quantum mechanics was correct [he famously said 
“The Almighty does not play dice”], and tried to find a unified theory 
without it instead, which increasily isolated him at Princeton as QM did 
have successes there.)

Since “spooky action at a distance” meant/means nothing else than “nonlocal 
effects”, albeit in a derisive fashion, “spooky action at a distance” is 
_not_ “a hypothetical mechanism behind entanglement for which there is not 
only no evidence at all […]”, different from what you claimed.

In fact, whether you want to call those observations “nonlocal effects”, or 
Einstein-derisively “spooky action at a distance”, carefully crafted 
experiments have shown them to be real.  So there is nothing “hypothetical” 
anymore about them since quite a while ago, and certainly there *is* 
evidence for them; again, different from what you claimed.

Also, they is _not_ just “a predicted correlation between measurements. 
Nothing more”; again, different from what you claimed.  There are *real* 
property changes in entangled particles (insofar as we can currently define 
reality: we do need to measure the properties which can influence the 
measurement itself), which allows for various
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement#Applications>.

Got it?


PointedEars
-- 
Q: What happens when electrons lose their energy?  
A: They get Bohr'ed.

(from: WolframAlpha)

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Faster than the speed of light Omar Shabsigh <omar.shabsigh@gmail.com> - 2015-11-28 04:36 -0800
  Re: Faster than the speed of light "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-28 07:09 -0800
  Re: Faster than the speed of light Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-28 07:41 -0800
    Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 05:35 -0800
    Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-02 05:13 -0600
      Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-02 22:47 +1100
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-04 09:31 -0600
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-05 14:09 +1100
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-06 09:42 -0600
              Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-07 10:57 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-16 11:08 -0600
      Re: Faster than the speed of light Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-02 03:55 -0800
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-04 09:35 -0600
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-04 09:43 -0800
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-06 10:03 -0600
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-05 14:13 +1100
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-06 10:07 -0600
      Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-02 10:40 -0600
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-02 17:43 +0000
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-04 09:39 -0600
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-04 12:50 -0600
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-12-06 10:28 -0600
        Re: Faster than the speed of light RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-04 09:38 -0800
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-05 18:06 -0800
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 07:45 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-07 11:06 +1100
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-07 15:04 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-07 15:10 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-08 17:08 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-09 12:13 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-08 18:35 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-08 19:41 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-10 18:07 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-09 15:08 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-09 03:43 -0800
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-10 11:39 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-10 18:31 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-10 15:49 -0800
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-13 00:19 +0000
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 18:20 -0800
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 20:24 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-12 14:00 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 02:48 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-12 22:38 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 09:25 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-13 13:12 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 20:08 -0800
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-13 05:34 -0800
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-20 23:10 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light alsor@interia.pl - 2015-12-24 12:09 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-24 21:55 -0800
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                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-25 19:43 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 03:21 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-14 22:38 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2016-01-14 04:08 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-01-15 11:13 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-12 12:03 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-12 17:15 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-13 13:14 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 13:57 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-11 23:42 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-13 12:15 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-11 23:29 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-11 15:32 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-11 23:47 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-11 23:34 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-11 20:21 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-12 16:31 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-12 00:52 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-11 00:11 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-12 16:59 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-09 13:30 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-09 14:12 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Plexippus Kritikos <plexik@laertesegidio.org> - 2015-12-09 22:32 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-10 15:37 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-13 12:50 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-12-10 18:10 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-11 16:35 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-07 14:53 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-08 12:22 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-07 18:47 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-08 15:33 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-07 21:43 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-07 19:40 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-10 00:27 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-08 12:58 -0800
  Re: Faster than the speed of light "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2015-11-28 07:56 -0800
  Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-11-29 15:50 +1100
    Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-11-30 16:21 +0000
      Re: Faster than the speed of light "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 08:40 -0800
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-11-30 16:55 +0000
          Re: Faster than the speed of light "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 09:28 -0800
            Re: Faster than the speed of light "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 09:31 -0800
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-30 12:14 -0600
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-11-30 18:25 +0000
          Re: Faster than the speed of light John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-30 21:23 -0800
            Re: Faster than the speed of light "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 21:50 -0800
              Re: Faster than the speed of light John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-30 22:20 -0800
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-01 17:38 +1100
              Re: Faster than the speed of light John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-30 22:50 -0800
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-01 11:02 -0600
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-01 17:40 +1100
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 07:44 +0100
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-01 19:54 +0000
      Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-30 11:51 -0600
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-11-30 18:03 +0000
    Re: Faster than the speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 07:41 +0100
      Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-01 19:11 +1100
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 22:42 +0100
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-02 10:20 +1100
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-01 23:32 +0000
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-02 00:53 +0100
              Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-02 00:03 +0000
              Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-02 11:14 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-02 02:03 +0100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 19:33 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 10:34 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-02 22:49 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-02 10:21 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-02 17:30 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-03 09:21 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-04 10:00 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 17:34 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-03 16:04 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-04 09:00 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-05 14:03 +1100
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-05 22:50 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-08 12:29 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-04 20:07 -0800
      Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-01 11:14 -0600
        Re: Faster than the speed of light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-12-02 05:46 -0800
          Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-02 08:26 -0800
            Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-02 09:38 -0800
              Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-02 17:45 +0000
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-02 20:10 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-03 05:58 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-03 17:11 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-03 17:25 -0800
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-02 10:43 -0600
            Re: Faster than the speed of light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-12-03 08:43 -0800
              Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-03 16:56 +0000
              Re: Faster than the speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 12:41 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-12-03 13:29 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 16:30 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-12-04 11:56 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 16:52 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-12-07 05:58 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-07 08:34 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-12-04 18:04 -0600
                Re: Faster than the speed of light kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2015-12-07 06:20 -0800
                Re: Faster than the speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-07 08:35 -0600
      Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 11:52 -0800
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 22:44 +0100
          Re: Faster than the speed of light JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 14:04 -0800
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 23:54 +0100
  Re: Faster than the speed of light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-30 11:32 -0600
    Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-11-30 18:49 +0000
      Re: Faster than the speed of light Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-11-30 20:15 +0100
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-11-30 19:22 +0000
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 10:51 +0100
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-01 19:45 +0000
          Re: Faster than the speed of light Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 10:55 +0100
            Re: Faster than the speed of light Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-01 19:48 +0000
  Re: Faster than the speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-01 10:16 -0600
  Re: Faster than the speed of light Adrian Ferent <adrferent@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 10:20 -0800
    Re: Faster than the speed of light fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2015-12-02 12:11 -0800
  Re: Faster than the speed of light Adrian Ferent <adrferent@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 13:45 -0800
    Re: Faster than the speed of light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-12-21 16:55 -0600
      Re: Faster than the speed of light Ezra Farrow <ezrafa@dubtechno.org> - 2015-12-21 23:15 +0000
        Re: Faster than the speed of light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-22 12:16 +1100
          Re: Faster than the speed of light John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-21 17:48 -0800
      Re: Faster than the speed of light John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-21 16:41 -0800

csiph-web