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Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture

Newsgroups comp.arch
Subject Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture
References <4E0BA344.6000003@SPAM.comp-arch.net> <6s5ud8-ikv2.ln1@ntp6.tmsw.no>
From Morten Reistad <first@last.name>
Date 2011-06-30 18:19 +0200
Message-ID <4e0cae63$1@news.broadpark.no> (permalink)

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In article <6s5ud8-ikv2.ln1@ntp6.tmsw.no>,
Terje Mathisen  <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> wrote:
>Andy "Krazy" Glew wrote:
>> First, there is [[real time]] or [[wall clock time]]. Time in the real
>> world (forgetting Einsteinian relativistic issues for the moment).
>
>With the sub-ns time scales in modern cpus, any large cluster (even if 
>presented as a single image CC-NUMA system to the programmer) will get 
>into trouble here:

You don't need to invoke NUMA. Even a single processor is a stretch to
keep under harmonius time, and we have stayed at the edge of what is
possible to synchronise ever since the KA10 (1967). 

As they get smaller, they also get faster. 

>You cannot have a globally consistent, totally distributed clock: Unless 
>you designate a single point of control, there's no way to always be 
>able to figure out the absolute order of two or more distributed events, 
>right?
>
>You simply have to fall back on workarounds, like having N bits for the 
>clock, of which the lower M bits is the clock ID. This way all 
>timestamps will be globally unique and sortable, even if the resulting 
>order might not be the "real" order as observed by some omniscient entity.

This ordering problem crept up on the financial markets ca 1985, and 
has never been resolved. Financial transactions do not rely on timestamps
for this reason, they just have a unique ID.

-- mrr

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Thread

Notions of Time in Computer Architecture "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-06-29 15:12 -0700
  Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 22:08 -0400
  Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-06-30 14:13 +0200
    Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-06-30 18:19 +0200
    Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture ChrisQ <meru@devnull.com> - 2011-06-30 21:23 +0100
      Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> - 2011-06-30 19:42 +0000
        Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-07-01 10:46 +0200
          Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> - 2011-07-01 15:17 +0000
            Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture ChrisQ <meru@devnull.com> - 2011-07-04 16:51 +0100
      Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-07-01 05:54 +0100
    Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-06-30 22:42 -0700
    Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) - 2011-07-01 20:16 +0000
      Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-07-02 10:33 +0200
        Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-07-02 09:26 +0100
        Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) - 2011-07-02 12:40 +0000
          Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-07-02 16:14 +0100
          Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 16:48 -0400
            Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2011-07-02 14:27 -0700
              Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2011-07-03 15:07 -0500
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-07-04 08:15 +0200
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-07-04 17:50 +0200
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-07-04 21:21 +0200
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-04 23:44 -0500
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> - 2011-07-05 07:51 +0200
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-05 01:56 -0500
            Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2011-07-03 19:28 +0200
          Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-07-03 11:27 -0700
            Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-07-03 22:13 +0100
              Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-07-03 18:53 -0700
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture nmm1@cam.ac.uk - 2011-07-04 08:34 +0100
            Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-07-03 18:51 -0700
            Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2011-07-04 09:20 +0000
              Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 12:26 -0700
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2011-07-04 19:35 -0400
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-07-08 15:48 +0200
            Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-05 15:24 -0700
              Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-07-08 09:25 -0700
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 12:12 -0700
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture "Andy \"Krazy\" Glew" <andy@SPAM.comp-arch.net> - 2011-07-08 17:27 -0700
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-07-09 18:07 -0400
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2011-07-10 12:03 -0400
                Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Robert Myers <rbmyersusa@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 13:02 -0700
    Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2011-07-08 15:13 +0200
  Re: Notions of Time in Computer Architecture Gubbi <gubsan100@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-01 00:50 -0700

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