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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #416706

Re: New Gravity Theory

From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: New Gravity Theory
Date 2017-04-19 23:15 +0200
Organization PointedEars Software (PES)
Message-ID <31110057.0ohYvAEMcT@PointedEars.de> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <648e54b7-a29b-437e-a22c-758d381ee74c@googlegroups.com> <9dde0e4a-3c4f-499c-8665-0c8867963e74@googlegroups.com> <bbf91cb1-334d-4961-8559-f1542fa23fa6@googlegroups.com> <e0a6c598-3fe1-467a-ba17-14cdb37514bb@googlegroups.com> <od8acj$ear$1@news.albasani.net>

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Paul B. Andersen wrote:

> Den 17.04.2017 15.34, skrev kenseto:
>> I invite you to read Chapter 2 of my book in the following link:
>> http://www.modelmechanics.org/2016ibook.pdf
> 
>  From where I quote:
>   <<
>    The Horizon Problem
>    -------------------
>    One of the most pressing problems of the Standard Big Bang
>    Model is the observed horizon problem. The age of our universe
>    is determined to be 14 billion years old in all directions and yet
>    we observe the horizon for the opposite regions of our universe
>    to be 28 billion years apart. In fact if all the regions are included
>    the observed horizon of the universe is estimated to be 46 billion
>    years. This means that these opposite regions of our universe
>    cannot be in contact with each other at the Big Bang and this is
>    known as the horizon problem.
>   >>
> 
> No comment!

You lose ;-p

If misconceptions are to be clarified in a scientific forum like this, and 
pseudo-scientific literature such as this to be debunked, those who know 
better (or think they know better) should either comment convincingly on
the misconception and the work, or be silent so as to let the misconception 
drift into obscurity along with their author and their work.

Let me try to comment on the quoted section briefly.

> >    The Horizon Problem
> >    -------------------
> >    One of the most pressing problems of the Standard Big Bang
> >    Model is the observed horizon problem. 

There is no such problem except in the mind of the author of this book.
See also the bottom of this rebuttal.

> >    The age of our universe is determined to be 14 billion years old in 
> >    all directions

Not even wrong.  Age does not have a direction.

The age of our universe (the *time* since its beginning) has been calculated 
to be *about* 14 billion years.  The last estimate (Planck Collaboration 
2015) was *about* 13.8 billion years (short scale, respectively).

> >    […] we observe the horizon for the opposite regions of our universe
> >    to be 28 billion years apart.

We do not.  Years is not a unit of distance, but of time.  And a horizon 
cannot be “apart”; that is gibberish.

The sentence would have made sense if it had been “We observe the opposite 
regions of our universe to be (about) 28 billion *light*-years apart”.
1 light-year is the distance that light travels in vacuum in 1 standard 
year.

The farthest objects that we can observe *have been* about 13.8 billion 
years away from us when they emitted the light that we receive from them 
(because nothing travels faster than light in a vacuum, so this is the 
maximum *comoving* distance for observation).  This means that they *had 
been* *apart* about 27.8 billion light-years or about 28 billion
light-years *at maximum* at the time of first emission.

We *calculate* the farthest observable regions to be about 46 billion 
*light*-years, *proper distance*, away from us in all directions.  This is 
the radius of the “observable universe”.  

If we assume that our universe has not a geometry that is “overlapping” in 
some way (for lack of a better word), this would make the farthest regions 
in opposite directions to be about 92 billion light-years, proper distance, 
apart.  This is the diameter of the “observable universe”.  (The entire 
universe is provably larger, and could be much larger.)

> >    In fact if all the regions are included the observed horizon of the
> >    universe is estimated to be 46 billion years.

Not even wrong.

> >    This means that these opposite regions of our universe
> >    cannot be in contact with each other at the Big Bang

According to calculations, the Big Bang happened at the beginning of our 
universe, so about 13.8 billion years ago.  Several observations that our 
universe is expanding now, and calculations how it would have evolved if it 
had been expanding ever since, whose results are supported by other 
observations, leads us to assume that our universe has been expanding since 
the Big Bang.

So certainly the regions of our universe that are now about 28 billion 
light-years comoving distance, or 96 billion light-years proper distance, 
apart, could have and would have been in contact with each other at the time 
of the Big Bang.  (Whether they had the same structure then as they have now 
is another issue.)

> >    and this is known as the horizon problem.

Only to crackpots, who have not shadow of a trace of a clue what they are 
talking about, but want to *sound* scientific.

See also: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe> pp.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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Thread

New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-10 06:07 -0700
  Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-10 15:40 +0000
    Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-10 09:49 -0700
      Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-10 19:09 +0000
  Re: New Gravity Theory Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-04-10 17:47 +0200
    Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-10 09:53 -0700
      Re: New Gravity Theory Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-04-12 08:04 +0200
        Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-12 05:51 -0700
          Re: New Gravity Theory Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-04-12 14:53 +0200
            Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-12 07:32 -0700
              Re: New Gravity Theory Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-04-12 16:40 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-12 13:39 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 16:03 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-13 05:04 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Heki Entouba <buububu@enou3eh.ac> - 2017-04-13 12:09 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 12:19 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-13 23:00 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 15:02 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-13 12:57 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 15:04 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Wendi Maddox <ox@awdodww.oe> - 2017-04-14 14:25 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 15:09 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-15 10:44 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-14 08:22 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 15:07 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-16 22:07 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-17 05:17 -0700
          Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-12 16:00 +0000
            Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-13 13:13 -0700
  Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 13:40 -0700
    Re: New Gravity Theory "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-10 14:52 -0700
      Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-10 15:19 -0700
    Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-10 23:25 -0700
    Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-11 07:39 -0700
      Re: New Gravity Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-11 10:15 -0700
        Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-11 10:52 -0700
        Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-11 11:12 -0700
          Re: New Gravity Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-11 11:35 -0700
            Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-11 11:41 -0700
            Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-11 21:46 -0700
              Re: New Gravity Theory Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-12 04:31 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-12 06:07 -0700
          Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-11 20:32 +0000
            Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-11 21:51 -0700
              Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-12 16:07 +0000
      Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 20:35 -0700
        Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-11 23:18 -0700
        Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-12 05:45 -0700
          Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-12 16:06 +0000
          Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 10:40 -0700
            Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-13 05:03 -0700
            Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-13 13:09 -0700
              Re: New Gravity Theory pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-04-13 13:17 -0700
              Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-13 21:43 +0000
              Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 15:18 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-15 01:02 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-15 12:34 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-04-15 23:07 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 15:14 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-04-16 10:23 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Emma Harmony <aymmmaeo@anownwrm.cm> - 2017-04-16 15:05 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-15 15:14 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-16 05:42 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-16 16:54 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-17 06:11 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-18 12:37 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-18 14:42 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-04-18 18:25 -0400
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-19 05:26 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Ward Jenkins <uaar@rwjawr2r.aa> - 2017-04-19 13:08 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-19 12:30 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Loma Bibee <miube@oeeele.ei> - 2017-04-19 19:34 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-19 13:16 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-19 13:25 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-19 13:45 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-19 14:02 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-20 07:16 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 13:08 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-20 14:05 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Loma Bibee <miube@oeeele.ei> - 2017-04-20 21:05 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 14:26 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-08 13:44 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 06:24 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-20 06:50 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-19 14:45 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-19 13:00 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-19 13:22 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-19 23:20 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-04-20 12:11 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-20 07:06 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Python <python@example.invalid> - 2017-04-20 16:47 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-20 09:56 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-04-20 23:48 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-20 15:13 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-04-21 10:49 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Loma Bibee <miube@oeeele.ei> - 2017-04-20 17:13 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-18 13:19 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Ward Jenkins <uaar@rwjawr2r.aa> - 2017-04-19 13:02 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-04-19 15:40 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Loma Bibee <miube@oeeele.ei> - 2017-04-19 18:05 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-17 06:34 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-17 16:03 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-17 13:11 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-18 01:42 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-18 06:17 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-18 20:17 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-04-19 20:30 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Loma Bibee <miube@oeeele.ei> - 2017-04-19 19:37 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-19 13:19 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-04-20 14:09 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Loma Bibee <miube@oeeele.ei> - 2017-04-20 17:12 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-20 15:26 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-04-25 01:29 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-25 10:35 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-25 14:21 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-26 05:58 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Himère Bezuinig <numunenen@wgngiweig.mc> - 2017-04-26 14:26 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:07 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-26 06:53 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-26 05:55 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-26 17:51 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 12:30 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-27 06:43 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 13:02 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-27 14:53 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 14:56 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-28 05:37 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 16:44 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-29 06:47 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:11 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-30 07:49 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 07:59 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-01 11:56 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 14:20 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 14:23 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-01 22:41 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 14:11 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-02 12:25 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-03 07:47 +0100
                Re: New Gravity Theory "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-04-28 14:18 +0100
                Re: New Gravity Theory Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 17:46 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-28 14:43 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:12 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 17:23 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-29 13:58 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-29 13:56 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 15:59 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-04-30 00:55 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 08:01 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-01 22:47 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 14:13 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-03 04:01 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 13:04 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 14:25 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-05-01 22:52 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 10:09 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-30 07:42 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-04-30 18:19 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-30 17:33 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-05-01 02:39 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 07:57 -0500
                Re: New Gravity Theory Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-04-19 23:15 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-04-20 01:21 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-04-26 20:18 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Himère Bezuinig <numunenen@wgngiweig.mc> - 2017-04-26 19:20 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-04-20 07:44 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Loma Bibee <miube@oeeele.ei> - 2017-04-20 17:09 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-05-07 02:06 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-05-07 07:14 -0700
                Re: New Gravity Theory Bordamos Alamidade <dd@dsmdawo.ab> - 2017-05-07 14:19 +0000
                Re: New Gravity Theory Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-05-07 17:45 +0200
                Re: New Gravity Theory Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-04-17 10:24 +0200
        Re: New Gravity Theory RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-26 13:08 -0700
          Re: New Gravity Theory Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 22:23 +0200
          Re: New Gravity Theory JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 13:38 -0700

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