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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #366995
| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: where can we find such people |
| Followup-To | alt.sci.philosophy |
| Date | 2015-10-14 02:31 +0200 |
| Organization | PointedEars Software (PES) |
| Message-ID | <2977606.CyFfJNf6Zz@PointedEars.de> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <slrnn0l0g1.e4d.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> <1684579.OQOJrBiJaK@PointedEars.de> <slrnn1lttg.57e.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> <mvgnoc$hmq$1@node2.news.atman.pl> <slrnn1o1mc.3bt.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> |
Followups directed to: alt.sci.philosophy
Ned Latham wrote: > Maciej Wozniak wrote: >> Ned Latham wrote: >> > Wrong. It is rejection of the god hypothesis. It's up to >> > those who put that hypothesis to show cause to accept it. >> >> Why? > > You lurk in a physics NG and you need to ask that? > > *sigh* > > Okay then, slow boy, pay careful attention. > > Syllogism 1: > 1. If an alleged phenomenon doesn't exist, it can have no > physical effect on the universe. > 2. But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. > C. Therefore it's impossible to prove the nonexistence of > an alleged phenomenon that doesn't exist. > > Syllogism 2: > 1. If an alleged phenomenon does exist, it can have some > physioal effect on the universe. > 2. Such an effect would be evidence of its presence. > C. Therefore it's possible to prove the existence of an > extant phenomenon. > > Syllogism 3: > 1. It's impossible to prove the nonexistence of an alleged > phenomenon that doesn't exist. > 2. It's possible to prove the existence of an extant phenomenon. > C. Therefore it's incumbent upon those who put an existence > hypothesis to show evidence in its favour; ie, show cause > to accept it. > > Quite simple, really. Too simple as, like your other arguments so far, it is flawed. Here, it is *your* claim of *non-existence* that would need to be substantiated *by you*. And that is difficult to do, to say the least. Because there is the possibility, and I think belief does not need to enter into it, that beings exist that we would consider gods, or god-like if you will, because we do not have the knowledge or perception to understand their technology (this is a common trope in science-fiction). In particular, humans need not be the most biologically and technologically advanced species in the universe; only human hubris assumes that, and this hubris is apparent from your syllogisms. Now, that does not mean that those beings have to exist. But if they exist, there is no way for us to know for sure which one of those assertions is true until either we have evolved enough or we have encountered them and it has been explained to us. Therefore, failing hard evidence of sufficient evolution and such encounters, we must question the idea whether it is worthwhile to take those hypothetical beings into account in the first place. (And certainly, quoting Gene Roddenberry, “We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.”) That does not mean, however, that we should stop appreciating the wonders of the universe, searching for answers to our questions, and for new questions. See also: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot> But *please* keep those purely philosophical discussions out of sci.physics.ALL and sci.physics.*relativity* in particular. It is wrong of you to claim that all science is philosophy, and that therefore they would be on-topic here: The natural sciences, like physics, separated themselves from mere philosophy more than three centuries ago, with mathematics («Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica», Isaac Newton, 1687). F'up2 <news:alt.sci.philosophy>; modify if you know a better newsgroup. As for “begs the question” vs. “raises the question”: I knew the “begging the question” fallacy already, but thanks for correcting my vocabulary there. PointedEars -- Two neutrinos go through a bar ... (from: WolframAlpha)
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where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-28 06:18 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-09-28 09:52 -0500
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-28 23:25 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-09-29 07:04 -0500
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-29 06:06 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-09-29 10:34 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-29 19:40 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-09-30 08:39 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-30 21:43 +0200
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 11:15 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-29 20:57 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-09-28 12:18 -0500
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-28 23:16 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 14:47 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 14:50 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-28 23:24 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 11:21 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-29 20:59 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-09-29 07:20 -0500
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 11:34 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-29 20:59 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-09-30 09:00 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-30 08:32 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-09-30 21:46 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-30 13:26 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-09-30 23:04 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 14:48 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-10-12 00:37 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-11 18:58 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-12 18:39 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-12 14:15 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-12 12:56 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-15 04:19 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-15 04:31 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-15 17:32 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-15 18:31 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-16 06:41 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-16 04:48 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-12 23:18 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-15 03:58 -0500
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-15 02:33 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-15 17:22 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-16 20:24 +0200
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 13:01 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-16 22:12 +0200
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 15:32 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 19:42 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-17 10:01 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-17 09:58 +0200
Re: where can we find such people John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-25 17:36 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-25 18:34 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-25 18:44 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-25 18:48 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-10-14 02:31 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-15 04:36 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-10-23 20:16 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-24 11:54 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-10-25 12:12 +0100
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-25 16:31 -0500
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 15:27 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Ned Latham <nedlatham@internode.on.net> - 2015-10-27 14:03 -0500
Re: where can we find such people John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 10:35 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 15:11 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 16:06 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 16:15 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 18:19 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-12 22:34 -0500
Re: where can we find such people John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 22:18 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 22:21 -0700
Re: where can we find such people kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-10-13 11:52 -0400
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-13 09:01 -0700
Re: where can we find such people shuba <tim@sh.uba> - 2015-10-13 16:39 +0000
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-13 10:49 -0700
Re: where can we find such people shuba <tim@sh.uba> - 2015-10-13 18:12 +0000
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-13 14:12 -0700
Re: where can we find such people shuba <tim@sh.uba> - 2015-10-14 00:22 +0000
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-13 20:00 -0700
Re: where can we find such people shuba <tim@sh.uba> - 2015-10-14 03:52 +0000
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-14 03:11 -0700
Re: where can we find such people paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 03:57 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-14 04:13 -0700
Re: where can we find such people kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-10-14 07:05 -0400
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-14 04:18 -0700
Re: where can we find such people kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-10-14 07:47 -0400
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-14 05:54 -0700
Re: where can we find such people kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-10-14 15:19 -0400
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-14 22:12 +0200
Re: where can we find such people pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-10-14 15:17 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-14 23:18 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 10:39 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-14 20:08 +0200
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 11:16 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-14 21:11 +0200
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 12:17 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-14 22:03 +0200
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 14:11 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-14 23:14 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-15 11:44 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-15 15:18 -0500
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-15 23:36 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-15 23:28 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 14:56 -0500
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-14 23:15 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-15 11:45 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-15 15:32 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-15 22:32 +0200
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-15 14:35 -0700
Re: where can we find such people shuba <tim@sh.uba> - 2015-10-16 00:10 +0000
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-15 23:52 -0700
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-15 23:56 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-16 00:03 -0700
Re: where can we find such people paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 04:19 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-16 05:01 -0700
Re: where can we find such people paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 05:42 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-16 05:47 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-14 18:17 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-14 04:10 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-14 18:21 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 06:15 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 09:14 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-14 07:53 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-14 13:05 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-14 14:57 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-14 22:35 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-15 06:00 -0700
Re: where can we find such people mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-10-15 06:15 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-15 14:43 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-15 20:19 +0000
Re: where can we find such people Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-10-15 22:37 +0200
Re: where can we find such people Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-14 23:30 +0000
Re: where can we find such people JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 17:04 -0700
Re: where can we find such people Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-10-14 22:41 -0500
Re: where can we find such people Euclid Baumann <eubaum@parallelnetwork.org> - 2015-10-15 16:31 +0000
Re: where can we find such people Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 14:54 -0500
Re: where can we find such people John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com> - 2015-10-14 15:35 -0700
Re: where can we find such people John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-14 17:53 -0700
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