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Re: 'Dark Matter'

From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: 'Dark Matter'
Date 2015-08-16 19:24 +0200
Organization PointedEars Software (PES)
Message-ID <2688426.pSMsc18cMh@PointedEars.de> (permalink)
References (17 earlier) <mqpo88$ts7$1@dont-email.me> <3155138.BU9sSTgYvL@PointedEars.de> <mqq6qi$qo4$1@dont-email.me> <1954282.8zvCD2iTY7@PointedEars.de> <mqq8ja$2o0$1@dont-email.me>

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Poutnik wrote:

> Dne 16/08/2015 v 16:33 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn napsal(a):
>> Poutnik wrote:
>>> Dne 16/08/2015 v 16:04 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn napsal(a):
>>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>>> Dne 15/08/2015 v 15:38 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn napsal(a):
>>>>>> Mistake #2.  The surface temperature of the Sun is irrelevant.  As I
>>>>>> have told you before, photons are not produced on the surface of the
>>>>>> Sun.  Any recoiling that you imagine to happen would happen where the
>>>>>> photons are either produced or emitted.
>>>>> Mistake #1
>>>> Not *my* mistake.
>>>>
>>>>> Photons produced in the Sun core never leave the Sun,
>>>>> as plasma is highly opaque for radiation.
>>>>> […]
>> Figures that you would not admit your own statements as evidence.
> 
> Only for what I have said, unless they contained reference.

I do not know what is the meaning of this and how it could possibly relate 
to what I wrote.  IOW, it is gibberish.  If you want to make an argument in 
English, I suggest you learn at least basic English.  With a discussion 
partner like me, who by confirmation of several native speakers considers 
themselves fluent in English although it is not their native language, I 
strongly suggest you be fluent in it as well.  Otherwise we will forever be 
talking past each other: You will not understand what I write, or will 
misunderstand it, and you will present your arguments in an incoherent 
fashion.

The fact stands that you are not admitting your own statements as evidence.  
Your statements that say exactly the same as I have said, while at the same 
time you are saying that I made a mistake.  If you are correct and I have 
made a mistake, then you have made the same mistake.  But if you have not 
made a mistake, then neither have I, and it is incorrect of you to say that 
I made one (and *that* would be your mistake then).

>>>> You are really good at straw man arguments.  Where have you learned it?
>>> Aside many other places - at yourself, :-)
>>> as you said so by other words as well.
>>> "And those photos are absorbed by the solar plasma after having traveled
>>> only short distances.  When they are re-emitted, that happens in a
>>> random direction and usually at a slightly lower energy”.
>> In other words, I have said exactly the same as you.  If you call what I
>> said a mistake, then you have made the same mistake as I did.
> 
> Have you said this ?
> 
> " As I have told you before, photons are not produced
> on the surface of the Sun. Any recoiling that you imagine to happen
> would happen where the photons are either produced or emitted."

Yes, I have.
 
> Photons of various energies and origin are produced within the whole Sun
> volume.

That is a claim.  By asserting the previous claim, it is your claim now.  So 
if you want to be taken seriously, if this discussion should go anywhere, 
you need to cite evidence that it probably true.  Then you would at least 
have an advantage over the person who I first debated on this.

AFAIK, there is no evidence that photons are *produced* on the surface of 
the Sun.  That they obviously emerge from the surface of the Sun (and 
eventually reach Earth, among other places in the Universe) does not mean 
that they are produced there.  It is important to distinguish between those 
two concepts.

Apparently I need to break it down for you: The claim that I debated was 
that photons are produced on the surface of the Sun.  The claim was used to 
assert that because the temperature on the surface of the Sun was “too low”, 
classical mechanics, which was called – a telltale sign for crank science – 
“Newtonian physics” by them, would suffice to describe the photon emission 
of the Sun, and to compute a recoiling speed of the Sun.  Consider this, not 
of individual particles, but *of the Sun itself*.

No evidence was provided to support that claim.  However, there is plenty of 
evidence that photons are produced in areas of the Sun closer to the core 
where the temperature is higher than on the surface, and where therefore the 
kinetic energies of the constituents of (stellar) matter (which is in the 
plasma phase), and of particles that one usually does not subsume under 
matter, like photons and neutrinos are so high that classical mechanics no 
longer suffices.

In particular, we (well, we non-cranks) already *know* without a shadow of a 
doubt that classical mechanics does _not_ suffice for describing photons.  
Photons are a concept from quantum mechanics which is based in part on 
special relativity.  Anyone who doubts that is *actually* adhering to *their 
disproved understanding of photons* instead, of corpuscles, little balls of 
light energy, as Newton thought.
 

PointedEars
-- 
“Science is empirical: knowing the answer means nothing;
 testing your knowledge means everything.”
   —Dr. Lawrence M. Krauss, theoretical physicist,
    in “A Universe from Nothing” (2009)

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Thread

'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-27 07:28 -0700
  'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-27 18:16 -0700
    Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-07-28 07:17 -0400
    Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-28 15:18 -0700
      Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-07-29 02:22 +0000
    Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-10 21:18 +0200
      Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 13:51 -0700
        Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 15:58 -0500
          Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-11 01:04 +0200
            Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:49 -0500
              Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:26 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 08:31 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:41 -0400
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:51 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:44 -0400
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 11:00 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-11 18:44 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 08:51 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:17 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 10:45 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:50 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 10:01 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 08:10 -0700
              Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 13:44 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:51 -0500
      Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 21:28 +0000
        Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 14:35 -0700
          Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 23:31 +0000
            Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 15:22 +0200
              Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 14:43 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 19:39 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 18:06 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 20:23 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 19:37 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 00:39 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 15:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:25 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:15 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:31 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-08-16 16:09 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' [OT] Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 18:47 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 10:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 11:09 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 12:40 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:17 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:46 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 10:42 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 11:21 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 12:58 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:19 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:49 +0200
                light is magneto-electrical noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 19:10 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 13:49 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 20:50 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 14:03 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 00:43 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 17:53 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 09:34 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 08:05 -0400
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 11:36 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:00 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:22 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:30 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:56 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 11:17 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 11:26 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 13:01 +0200
              Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 10:14 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 10:43 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 13:07 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:21 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:07 +0200
        Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-11 01:03 +0200
          Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 23:40 +0000
            Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 13:41 +0200
              Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 14:54 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 08:13 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 10:46 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 09:48 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 10:00 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 13:45 -0500
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 16:01 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 07:07 -0400
                Re: 'Dark Matter' noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 10:39 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 20:29 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-13 19:14 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 19:28 +0000
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-15 15:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 12:23 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:04 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 16:32 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 16:33 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:02 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 19:24 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 20:31 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 22:16 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 22:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 20:45 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 22:32 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 22:57 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 23:22 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 23:34 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 23:38 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 07:43 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 08:07 -0700
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 21:40 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 22:35 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 23:36 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 23:50 +0200
                Re: 'Dark Matter' Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 07:56 +0200
          Re: 'Dark Matter' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:48 -0500
            Re: 'Dark Matter' Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-13 13:41 +0200
  Re: 'Dark Matter' "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 13:27 -0700
  Re: 'Dark Matter' "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 14:42 -0700
  Re: 'Dark Matter' "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 14:01 -0700
    Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 20:21 -0700
    Re: 'Dark Matter' benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 01:26 -0400
      Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 06:07 -0400
        Re: 'Dark Matter' Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 08:05 -0500
        Re: 'Dark Matter' john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 07:04 -0700
          Re: 'Dark Matter' HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 19:14 -0400
  Re: 'Dark Matter' "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-19 09:12 -0700

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