Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system, alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject	Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs
Date	2020-06-24 17:56 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<240620201756153724%nospam@nospam.invalid> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <%KIIG.33204$pC.6379@fx19.iad> <rcvmdv$s9e$1@dont-email.me> <SeMIG.10594$Li1.6185@fx11.iad> <240620201442145239%nospam@nospam.invalid> <5oPIG.51075$AN2.43683@fx46.iad>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

In article <5oPIG.51075$AN2.43683@fx46.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> > existing stock was sold until it was gone, with refurb powerpc macs
> > selling for year or so after that.
> 
> Suspect that discontinued models that are still in stock and don't sell
> eventually go to "refurb" where Apple can price them low to get rid of
> them without influencing published prices for new computers.

that doesn't change anything.

powerpc macs ceased being made in late 2006 and within a year or so,
all new and refurbs had been sold.

> While Apple stated 2 year transition, I suspect that it will be much
> faster, as was the case for the PowerpC to Intel transition as you
> pointed out.

yep. a year from now, most, if not all macs, will be apple silicon,
except maybe the mac pro, which is a high end niche system.

> For one thing, people will stop buying Macs now, awaiting the newer
> ones. Secondly, Consider that the current lineup of Macs has seen recent
> refreshes. So they are good to go without a new Intel model until the
> ARM based ones come out.

sales will slow down, but they won't stop.

> So it is in Apple's own interest to go wuickly on this.
> 
> The bigger question in my mind is how the first ARN chip will be
> positioned.  They produced the A12 based Mac Mini for developpers. Will
> the first "real" one be a truly impressive high performance one for the
> "Pro" models, or would it be an iPad class chip for the MacBook/Air and
> normal iMacs?

the developer transition mac is for testing and not representative of
what future macs might be.



> > some had to deal with endian issues because they chose not to write
> > endian-neutral code and it came back to bite them. 
> 
> In many cases, you have no choice because of what your code interfaces
> with.  Not all devices talk "text" in XML.  And many older databases
> stored data in binary to space space. Many config files are in binary to
> prevent users editing them. Anything that is binary and stored in file
> becomes endian sensitive.

that doesn't change the fact that some developers took shortcuts, which
came back to bite them in the ass.

> > apple licensed rosetta from a company called transitive, which was
> > later bought by ibm, who had no interest in licensing it to apple 
> 
> I was puzzled by Apple's use of the erm "Rosetta". So did a big of googling.
> 
> "Rosetta" was not Transitive's  (so not IBM). Apple Licenced
> QuickTransit from Transitive and created its own brand "Rosetta" for its
> implemnentation.

you're contradicting yourself.

> But I suspect Rosetta2 is far more simpler as a file coverter as opposed
> to converting machine code in-memory while it executes.

you suspect all sorts of things, very few of which have any relevance
to reality.

> The file converter has the luxury of relinking the image and resolving
> all exeternal references to point to the ARM versions of external
> binaries.  So when the translated app is launched, it truly launches as
> a native app with all references to external subroutinesdynamic
> libraries resolved to ARNM code right at launch time and no need to trap
> any attempt to access untranslated code.
> 
> However, consider (whcih is now very rare and impossible on many
> architvetures) a self modifying app that builds in memory some code to
> which it then branches. Such an app would be translated and launch
> normally,  but when it writes to RAM code to which it intends to brand,
> that code would still be x86 and it would then crash when it tries to
> branch to it. (assuming it runs on a platform that allows one to branch
> to data memory).
> 
> In am emulated environment, this would work because every instruction is
> translated on the fly.  However, the use of self modifying code is long
> gone, except in virus attacks where buffer overloads attem,pt to insert
> specific machine code that the attacker hopes the victim will branch to.
> So by moving to Arm, it means those types of attacks will need to insert
> ARM opcodes instead of 8086 ones.
> #

you call that simpler????

Thread

Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-24 04:38 +0000
  Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-23 21:45 -0700
    Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-06-24 17:10 +1200
      Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-06-24 02:05 -0400
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-24 01:47 -0700
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-24 13:29 +0000
      Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 09:42 -0400
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 09:45 -0400
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 13:10 -0400
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 14:42 -0400
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-06-24 10:02 -0400
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 10:24 -0400
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-24 14:38 +0000
              Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-24 14:40 +0000
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-24 16:48 -0700
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-25 01:53 +0000
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-25 11:34 -0700
              Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-24 16:47 -0700
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-06-24 20:17 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-25 02:03 +0000
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-06-24 23:34 -0500
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-06-25 00:46 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-25 05:18 +0000
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-06-25 01:49 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-06-25 17:47 +1200
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-25 02:50 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-25 08:24 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-25 06:48 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2020-06-25 07:34 -0500
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-25 08:39 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-25 11:34 -0700
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-25 14:37 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-25 11:43 -0700
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-06-26 08:40 +1200
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-25 13:42 -0700
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-25 04:46 +0000
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-25 08:19 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-25 12:33 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-26 10:53 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-06-26 23:39 +0000
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-27 00:39 +0000
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-26 18:01 -0700
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-24 14:29 +0000
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 13:41 -0400
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2020-06-24 13:55 -0400
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 14:42 -0400
              Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-24 17:15 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 17:56 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-25 02:31 -0400
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-06-25 13:06 +1200
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-25 02:24 +0000
      Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-03 15:46 -0700
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-03 15:53 -0700
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-04 15:14 +1200
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-04 00:49 -0700
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-07-04 01:15 -0700
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 08:09 -0400
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-03 20:54 -0400
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-07-04 16:30 -0400
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-04 17:12 -0400
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2020-07-05 09:47 -0700
              Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-05 19:23 +0100
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-05 15:50 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-05 21:00 +0100
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-05 16:11 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2020-07-05 21:51 +0100
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-05 16:57 -0400
              Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-05 15:50 -0400
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-07-04 15:11 +1200
    Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-24 15:55 -0400
      Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 16:04 -0400
      Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-24 16:51 -0700
  Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-24 15:04 -0400
    Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 15:12 -0400
      Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-24 18:07 -0400
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-24 18:27 -0400
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-25 02:41 -0400
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-25 06:48 -0400
              Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-06-25 10:53 -0400
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-06-25 11:11 -0400
        Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2020-06-25 18:21 +0000
          Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-25 11:32 -0700
            Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2020-06-25 19:14 +0000
              Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-25 12:56 -0700
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2020-06-26 12:22 +0000
                Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-26 12:21 -0700
  Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-06-27 00:33 +0000
    Re: Boot Camp freeware to dual boot Windows & MacOS is dead on all new ARM-core Macs Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-06-26 18:02 -0700

csiph-web