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Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe"

From Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe"
Date 2024-10-10 19:11 +0300
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20241010191127.000008a8@yahoo.com> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <ve8bgt$34j45$1@dont-email.me> <20241010141047.00003932@yahoo.com> <ve8jps$35p6h$1@dont-email.me> <20241010165414.00004de1@yahoo.com> <ve8qlv$36ojh$1@dont-email.me>

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On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 18:08:48 +0300
Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote:

> On 10.10.2024 16:54, Michael S wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 13:11:24 -0000 (UTC)
> > Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org wrote:
> >   
> >> On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 14:10:47 +0300
> >> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> boring babbled:  
> >>> On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 10:50:05 -0000 (UTC)
> >>> Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org wrote:
> >>>     
> >>>> On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 13:44:59 +0300
> >>>> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> boring babbled:  
> >>>>> On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 10:20:07 -0000 (UTC)
> >>>>> Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org wrote:  
> >>>>>> I think its just their way of checking if something could have
> >>>>>> been altered before use in a way that might crash the program
> >>>>>> or introduce bugs.
> >>>>>>        
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now you're talking about meaning of 'borrow checker'.
> >>>>> Before we go that far we have to dig up the meaning of 'borrow'.
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>> Since when do programming language keywords always mean the exact
> >>>> same as the english equivalent? Last time I looked "for" didn't
> >>>> mean "loop" in english.
> >>>>      
> >>>
> >>> Well, I don't know how it feels for native English speakers, but
> >>> for me meaning of 'loop' in programming is not equivalent to its
> >>> meaning in the rest of English language.  
> >>
> >> Something thats circular(ish) or goes around in a circle. Its close
> >> enough.
> >>  
> >>>> Frankly borrow-checking can mean whatever they want it to mean
> >>>> this week, but in general its what I said above.
> >>>>      
> >>>
> >>> Neither 'borrow' nor 'borrow checker' are Rust keywords. They are
> >>> abstract (more or less) concepts used in Rust manuals. And it
> >>> seems logical that it would be easier to explain the later if we
> >>> explain the former first.  
> >>
> >> Presumably the borrow means something "borrowed" the pointer, and
> >> checker means checking the pointer is still valid. Doesn't seem
> >> complicated to me.
> >>  
> > 
> > May be, for people that are used to smart pointers in C++, for
> > people that move their private parts from unique_ptr to shared_ptr
> > to weak_ptr forth, back and sideways, may be for these people Rust
> > ownership and borrowing business is not complicated. For me it is.
> >   
> 
>  From what I have understood, Rust borrowing is more related to 
> std::move() and rvalue references in C++. But yes, one thing which
> can be moved around this way is indeed std::unique_ptr.
> 

My understanding is an opposite. 
Borrowing is the case when the ownership is *not* moved by creation of
the reference. Something akin to shared_ptr in C++ and to
reference-counted object in Swift or may be even in Python. With the
major difference that in Rust references are counted by static analyzer
in compile time rather than by language runtime system (Swift) or by
the library (C++) in run time.

But then, not counting examples from tutorial, I wrote only one
full program in Rust and this program was rather simple. So it is
possible that I misunderstood.

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Thread

"Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-08 20:40 -0500
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 14:14 +0300
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-09 15:02 -0500
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-09 23:46 +0300
      Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 08:34 +0000
        Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 12:51 +0300
          Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 10:20 +0000
            Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 13:44 +0300
              Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 10:50 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 14:10 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-10 13:11 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 16:54 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-10 18:08 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 23:37 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-10-10 19:03 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 19:11 +0300
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-10 20:01 +0200
          Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-10 07:56 -0700
            Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-10 18:56 +0300
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-10-20 10:13 -0700
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-10 12:13 -0400
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 18:29 +0200
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-20 12:37 +0100
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-20 14:46 +0300
      Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-10-20 14:23 +0000
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-27 19:09 -0400
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-27 20:40 -0400
      Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-10-28 09:22 +0800
        Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-10-27 21:18 -0700
          Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-28 12:25 -0400
            Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-30 12:56 -0400
              Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-10-30 12:50 -0700
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-30 16:31 -0400
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-04 12:47 -0800
              Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-07 07:02 -0500
              Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-07 20:14 -0600
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-08 09:40 -0500
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-08 14:48 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-08 14:54 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 12:40 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:39 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-11 09:56 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-11 13:36 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-12 08:28 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 13:56 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 13:59 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:20 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-10 13:02 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-10 13:05 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 12:46 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 05:18 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 13:23 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 05:25 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 13:27 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:02 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:09 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:35 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:37 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:47 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:58 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 07:09 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:35 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-08 23:50 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 18:11 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 14:39 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 06:58 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:01 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 07:13 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 15:40 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 08:19 +0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-08 18:15 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-09 16:23 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:42 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-09 23:23 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-11-10 11:00 +0200
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:56 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 16:59 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-12 17:05 -0800
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-09 12:01 +0000
                Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-11-09 12:50 -0800
    Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-11-04 06:59 -0800
  Re: "Safe C++ is A new Proposal to Make C++ Memory-Safe" jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-11-30 10:03 -0500

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