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Re: anybody here?

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On 2023-12-07, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 06/12/2023 23:42, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2023-12-05, Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Humm. It seems as if this group has gone quite "dark" on my end.
>> 
>> I think that most long-time users of C++ are put off by all the crap
>> that has gone into making it even more insanely bloated.
>> 
>
> How does this "crap" affect your coding?  Maybe, for example, you don't 
> like fold expressions and parameter packs from newer C++ standards.  If 
> you don't use them, however, how do they affect you?  The usual answer 
> is having to deal with other people's code that use the new features, 
> but is it really a common problem in practice?

I want to work in a team where everyone knows 95% of the language
and other tools we are using.  Not everyone knowing a different 10%:
like a room full of blind people groping different parts of an elephant.

I can't even meaningfully discuss C++ any more. Even if I made it a good
chunk of a part time job to study it, I'd have to find someone else who
does same.

(Why am I here? Due to some cross-posted thread that wasn't about C++.)

> I usually find that with each new C++ standard, there are some features 
> I like, and some that I don't much like or are very unlikely to use. 
> And there are always some that are nice ideas, but ugly or complicated 
> in practice - most often due to backwards compatibility with the 
> existing language (or C).

I can get shit done in nothing but C++98. Or C for that matter.

Newer C++ features are no longer about getting shit done but basically
envy of some higher level languages. I sense that C++ is in kind of
panic that the language won't attract new, younger programmers if it
doesn't become like Scala, Haskell, Python, or whatever.

None of that helps me.

It's very similar to when businesses chase new customers with
incentives, and take for granted their existing customers.

>> And that's nearly the only kind of user you're going to get
>> in a Usenet comp.* newsgroup.
>
> Well, you'll mainly get "long-time users" here, but I don't know if it's 
> fair to say that most are put off by "crap" and "bloat".  (I also don't 
> know that it's /not/ fair to say that.  I don't believe we have a basis 
> for judging it.)

There is also survivorship bias; you don't see people who are not here
any more.

Where is good old Andrew Koenig? According to Google Groups search, he
last posted here almost exactly ten years ago (responding to a "C++ ==
Gagware" thread, on the same topic we are in now).

Scott Meyers lost interest in C++ in 2016.

Why would I stay interested in C++ if even die hard Scott Meyers won't
touch it any more?

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
NOTE: If you use Google Groups, I don't see you, unless you're whitelisted.

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Thread

anybody here? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-05 13:22 -0800
  Re: anybody here? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-12-05 21:38 +0000
    Re: anybody here? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-12-05 21:55 +0000
      Re: anybody here? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-12-06 12:18 +0000
    Re: anybody here? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-05 13:55 -0800
      Re: anybody here? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-05 14:13 -0800
      Re: anybody here? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-12-05 22:56 +0000
      Re: anybody here? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-12-06 09:27 +0100
  Re: anybody here? Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2023-12-05 23:24 +0100
    Re: anybody here? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-05 15:24 -0800
      Re: anybody here? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-12-06 08:50 +0100
        Re: anybody here? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-06 12:44 -0800
          Re: anybody here? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-12-07 08:23 +0100
  Re: anybody here? Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-06 22:42 +0000
    Re: anybody here? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-06 16:42 -0800
    Re: anybody here? Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-08 02:28 +0000
      Re: anybody here? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-12-08 14:16 +0100
        Re: anybody here? Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-08 22:41 +0000
          Re: anybody here? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-08 18:41 -0800
          Re: anybody here? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-12-09 15:22 +0100
      Re: anybody here? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-08 12:15 -0800
  Re: anybody here? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2023-12-06 17:34 -0600

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